Wild Deuce
Master
- Dec 2, 2009
- 4,946
- 12
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Moonclip question
- Thread starter Wild Deuce
- Start date
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You should be able to fire rounds without the moonclips...of course, ejecting will be one at a time. But why are you concerned about moonclips? Do you plan to have the cylinder machined so that you can use moonclips in place of a speedloader?
I think I am a little confused by the question. I know the GP100 doesn't come in .45Colt, but I had one that was changed over to accept moonclips so I could shoot .45ACP. It will still fire .45 Colt no problem without a clip.
My initial answer is yes, because of my experience with the .45Colt, and the fact that the cylinder chamber diameter doesn't change, it's mainly the face of the cylinder that changes to allow for the space of the clip. In a revolver, if it will chamber, and you can close the cylinder, you're good to go, unless the round is above the intended pressure is below the round, i.e. .357 in a .38, which shouldn't fit anyhow.
Hope that's what you are looking for.
Wild Deuce
Master
- Dec 2, 2009
- 4,946
- 12
Undecided ... gathering information. This was a question I had. I know speedloaders can be just as fast but I was taking into consideration the fact that I sometimes shoot this gun in competition. Nothing says, "Leave my brass alone" like moonclips.
Wild Deuce
Master
- Dec 2, 2009
- 4,946
- 12
I was taking into consideration that there is now a little bit less metal around the base of the cartridge (the metal that was machined away to make room for the moonclip). Is there enough metal missing to cause a case failure without a moonclip in place?
No. The case would be retained in the chamber regardless. The only thing that I can comprehend that might be changed is that if you used long bullets that filled the entire cylinder chamber prior to the machine work, I suppose there is a slight chance that they would stick out, but that is fractional and improbable. Especially if the gunsmith is good at what he does, and takes only as little as possible.
ETA: Rather than a case failure or any ammunition issues, you are more likely to receive a gun back that will fail to fire without a moonclip due to too much of the cylinder taken away, and the firing pin not being able to reach the primer, or delayed from not striking hard enough. This is actually fairly rare as the switch over to moonclips is somewhat of a "normal" gunsmith's procedures.
The bottom line is that as long you send it to a competent gunsmith, you should receive a gun back that is 100% capable of firing ammunition both in, and out of the moonclip.
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Moonclips will always be faster than speedloaders. Always. A revolver that has been modified for moons may or may not reliably fire cartridges without the clips. If the headspacing is changed when the gun is modified the firing pin may not be able to punch some brands of primers hard enough or deep enough to set it off. Most revolvers will fire without moonclips but the only way to tell is to try it. I have a 1st generation S&W 625-2 that will not fire 100% without use of moonclips. These guns are about 50-50 without moonclips. The later guns usually will fire without clips. When using clips the cartridge will headspace off of the clip. The thickness of the clip and the dimensions of the case extraction groove and rim can make a difference. I use only Federal brass and primers and my 625 is 100% with moonclips. It has never failed to fire. Without the moonclips maybe-maybe not. As I said the only way to know is to test it. In a .45 ACP clipped gun the groove in the case has enough clearance to allow the rounds to wiggle in the clip. This makes reloads much easier as the cartridges will self align and drop into the cylinder. When moonclipping straight wall cases like a .38 Spl. the groove is much tighter and the rounds are held more rigidly so that all 6 must be aligned precisely with the cylinder. It works fine but there is no room for user error and most guys will be a little slower reloading rimmed revolver rounds. It will still be faster than using a speedloader. I have stood right behind Jerry Miculek and watched his reload technique and he actually just throws the clip at the open cylinder from a couple inches above the open cyl. and they go right in. I don't believe that anyone can reload a revolver as fast as this guy. The first time I saw it I could not believe what I was seeing.
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OP Just curious but why would you want to fire a moonclipped gun without the clips? I have 4 different moonclip guns and haven't ever needed to fire them without the moons. As for your question safety will not change but reliability will be questionable it depends on gun and the thickness of the clips the gunsmith uses.
Here is a link to one of the expert gunsmiths who does moonclip conversions
Welcome to TK Custom.com & Moonclips.com
Here is a link to one of the expert gunsmiths who does moonclip conversions
Welcome to TK Custom.com & Moonclips.com
Indy_Guy_77
Grandmaster
- Apr 30, 2008
- 16,576
- 48
Slowly & painfully?
Unloading generally involves a dowel rod/pen/pencil and a good grip to make sure you don't bend the clip.
Also, leaving the clips loaded w/ cases until you're ready to reload them is a good way to keep them from getting lost.
-J-
Their are several different tools available to load and unload the clips you can buy from cheep to high dollar. You can find them online at Brownells and other places.
I load most of mine by hand but do use a moon loader on .38 super as they load harder than others. I have a piece of pipe I modified to unload them. Brownells sells a tool(just like my pipe) fairly cheep to unload them.
Also different brand of brass have different groove(where the clip fits) dimensions and some loads harder than others.
Wild Deuce
Master
- Dec 2, 2009
- 4,946
- 12
Thanks for all the replies. I'm learning. I had not even considered the increased headspacing.
I don't want to fire a moonclipped gun without the clips. I just want to know that I could/couldn't/shouldn't if the need arose. Thanks for the link.
I don't want to fire a moonclipped gun without the clips. I just want to know that I could/couldn't/shouldn't if the need arose. Thanks for the link.
geronimojoe85
Master
- Nov 16, 2009
- 3,716
- 48
The problem you run into with moon clips for 9mm/38super is that they are thin and easily bent, and the 38/357 mag ones are even worse. And it's really hard to tell when they're bent too hopefully not in the middle of a stage when your revolver won't close or is locked shut.
You don't have that problem (as much) with 45 and 40 moon clips because they're nice and thick.
I believe with the TK customs conversion you can still shoot your 357s and 38s
You don't have that problem (as much) with 45 and 40 moon clips because they're nice and thick.
I believe with the TK customs conversion you can still shoot your 357s and 38s
Yup, Tom Kilhoffer at TK Custom does it right. You also never want to shoot against him at match. He is fast. He used to enter our matches and shoot a revolver against all of the semi auto shooters. And beat them. He is an ex Illinois State Police champion shooter and former State Police Armorer. If you want a revolver cut for moonclips let him do it. (He actually has a Bridgeport mill in his basement. I have no idea how he got it in there.)
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Depends on who did the conversion. If it is done right, it will shoot without them. The 45ACP ones will fire without them too, you just cannot get the cases out too easily!
Depends on who did the conversion. If it is done right, it will shoot without them. The 45ACP ones will fire without them too, you just cannot get the cases out too easily!
i pick them out with my finger nail....
