Mosul has fallen

[hornadylnl]

Man you missed out. I got an engineering degree and a job out of the GI bill.

@Hornadylnl

Is it your view that wars are never justified or is just these wars? Under what circumstance would war be justified?

A war against those who attack the US are justified. Foreign interventionism designed to keep the world under our thumb is not justified.

Americans wet their beds at night over the UN headquarters being in New York yet how many of those same people think we should have permanent bases all over the world?

ETA: I'm doing quite well for myself without the aid of my college fund.

 

[cqcn88]

A war against those who attack the US are justified. Foreign interventionism designed to keep the world under our thumb is not justified.

Americans wet their beds at night over the UN headquarters being in New York yet how many of those same people think we should have permanent bases all over the world?

ETA: I'm doing quite well for myself without the aid of my college fund.

How about when allies are attacked?

 

[hornadylnl]

How about when allies are attacked?

From someone much smarter than I.

“Peace, commerce, and honest friendship with all nations — entangling alliances with none.” ~ Thomas Jefferson

 

[Kirk Freeman]

More unmerited, unlicensed criticism of Obama from Bloombergview: What Obama Didn't Say About Iraq - Bloomberg View

 

[rob63]

It seems pretty clear from what Obama said, from what he didn't say, and what "anonymous" sources from within the administration are saying that we are not likely to even offer air support. Boots on the ground has clearly been ruled out.

 

[Kirk Freeman]

ISIS presses attack north of Baghdad: ISIS militants still pressing forward in Iraq - CNN.com

Iran offers assistance to resist ISIS insurgents: BBC News - Iraq conflict: Iran's Rouhani 'ready to help'

 

[BehindBlueI's]

The way to destroy our enemy is to destroy his will to fight. We do this by introducing a retrovirus into Islam.

Islam isn't the issue, any more than Christianity is the issue in central Africa. Religion may be twisted to encourage the uneducated and desperate to enlist and fight, but is not the underlying cause of the conflict by those who actually lead it.

 

[Kirk Freeman]

Islam isn't the issue? Have you seen the black flags of jihad that ISIS is flying? They are not banners advertising cupcakes.

Only on INGO could someone say that Islam has nothing to do with the Islamic State of Iraq and the Crescent has nothing to do with Islam.

Indiana Gun Owners has nothing to do with the gun culture in Indiana. No one is talking about Indiana or things that happen in Indiana whatsoever.

Here is more from the Islamic State of Iraq and the Levant executing police officers. Not in the name of Islam, but likely inspired by Jerad Miller: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...len-fleeing-western-trained-Iraqi-forces.html

 

[KG1]

I didn't vote for the policy that sent people to Bosnia while running away from it myself like so many chicken hawks are want to do.

You did'nt aswer my question. Did you approve of our involvement in that conflict which you took part in?

 

[BehindBlueI's]

Islam isn't the issue? Have you seen the black flags of jihad that ISIS is flying? They are not banners advertising cupcakes.

Only on INGO could someone say that Islam has nothing to do with the Islamic State of Iraq and the Crescent has nothing to do with Islam.

Indiana Gun Owners has nothing to do with the gun culture in Indiana. No one is talking about Indiana or things that happen in Indiana whatsoever.

Here is more from the Islamic State of Iraq and the Levant executing police officers. Not in the name of Islam, but likely inspired by Jerad Miller: ISIS boast of slaughtering 1,700 soldiers after posting beheading video of Iraqi policeman | Mail Online

...and who are they attacking? Other Muslims. So, in your mind, the tenants of Islam are that you should use jihad to wage war against other muslims?

This isn't about jihad. Religious schisms play a role, but also aren't the underlying issues, they are more of an excuse, an easy to define and easy to market, method of determining who the good guys are and who the bad guys are. Until alliances shift. Then the schisms disappear. Look at the Lebanese civil war. Militias were organized along religious and ethnic lines, but the civil war was not along religious or ethnic lines. Druze, Muslim, and Christian militias allied with each other against different Druze, Muslim, and Christian militias, and frequently broke alliances based on shifting needs.

Are you familiar with the history of the region? How various groups could justify a "jihad" against the British while allied with the Germans (who encouraged the concept of Jihad to root the British out of Egypt? Do you really think that's a true religious tenant? That religious zealotry says "we can ally with these Christians, but not those Christians" if the true motivation was jihad? From the Crusades through today, religion has been an excuse and a marketing tool, not a true catalyst for war. Even then, it was not Christian Vs Muslim, as both groups had allies on "the other side of the fence" and both attacked or abandoned forces on "their own side of the fence" religiously speaking, when it was in their national or personal political interests to do so. Modern Iraq is no different. Control of resources and political power are the catalysts, not "jihad."

 

[Henry]

From someone much smarter than I.

“Peace, commerce, and honest friendship with all nations — entangling alliances with none.” ~ Thomas Jefferson

HEAR!!! HEAR!!!

 

[BehindBlueI's]

From someone much smarter than I.

“Peace, commerce, and honest friendship with all nations — entangling alliances with none.” ~ Thomas Jefferson

Wasn't Thomas Jefferson instrumental in gaining and maintaining an entangling alliance with France during his tenure as Secretary of State?

 

[mrjarrell]

Wasn't Thomas Jefferson instrumental in gaining and maintaining an entangling alliance with France during his tenure as Secretary of State?

Diplomatic relations, yes. Getting involved in their wars, no. There's a huge difference in maintaining diplomatic and trade relations and getting into bed with them for the whole shooting match.

 

[hornadylnl]

Man you missed out. I got an engineering degree and a job out of the GI bill.

@Hornadylnl

Is it your view that wars are never justified or is just these wars? Under what circumstance would war be justified?

The only purpose of discussion of the GI bill in this thread was another attempt by KG1 to discredit my service. Funny when the left suggests that the only reason soldiers join is for college money or they can't find another job, conservatives froth at the mouth. How dare they question the motives of our soldiers.

Proof again that neither side cares about our vets past the point of which they no longer serve a purpose to their agenda.

 

[hornadylnl]

You did'nt aswer my question. Did you approve of our involvement in that conflict which you took part in?

And your question has nothing to do with the points I'm making in this thread but I'll answer it any way. I didn't support our actions in Bosnia but I signed a contract and I abided by it. Now how does that even remotely resemble those that man the pom poms for war while running away from service themselves?

 

[Henry]

OK, so what do you base your opinion on?

Based on my time there.
It is, in my opinion, a ***** hole.

 

[mrjarrell]

Looks like they're executing the religious class. Even the ones that are ostensibly on the same side as them. Most people look at ISIL/S as sunni muslim group. My guess is they don't care one way or the other. Submit to their rule or die seems to be their rule.

ISIL militants execute 12 clerics in Mosul for rejecting to obey them

 

[BehindBlueI's]

Based on my time there.
It is, in my opinion, a ***** hole.

Which was when and where and in what context?

If your only exposure to the US was a ghetto in Detroit, you probably wouldn't have a very high opinion of the US, either, but that doesn't mean you got an accurate picture.

 

[Henry]

Which was when and where and in what context?

If your only exposure to the US was a ghetto in Detroit, you probably wouldn't have a very high opinion of the US, either, but that doesn't mean you got an accurate picture.

Its okay to agree to disagree BBI.

It's a ******** in my opinion.

In yours it isn't.

 

[BehindBlueI's]

Looks like they're executing the religious class. Even the ones that are ostensibly on the same side as them. Most people look at ISIL/S as sunni muslim group. My guess is they don't care one way or the other. Submit to their rule or die seems to be their rule.

ISIL militants execute 12 clerics in Mosul for rejecting to obey them

Of course. Like I said earlier, religion isn't the underlying issue in modern Iraq anymore than it was in the Arab's revolting against British occupation of Egypt. They may couch it in religious language, but these are people who couch making an appointment with a hair dresser in religious language.

Similarly, we all know that the reasons people give for their actions are often not the real reasons. Even if you remove the overt reasons to lie, we often lack a level of self-awareness as to why we act as we do. When deciding to sue a doctor or not for malpractice, people cite the harm done by the negligence as the reason. Studies that predict what doctors get sued show that number and severity of mistakes has no predictive value on which doctors get sued, though. Why does have great predictive power is surveys of rudeness, 'bedside manner', etc. People don't sue doctors they like, in other words, even if the harm done is the same as by a doctor they don't like. However no one ever cites "he was rude and condescending" as the reason for the law suit.

As we instinctively know, actions speak louder than words. What do their actions point to as the motivation for their actions?