Muzzleloader instruction needed

[Salty Possum]

Hey INGO,
I've been looking at muzzleloaders lately and they look interesting. Last time I was at Wilbur Wright there was a guy that had traditional style rifles, some flintlocks and cap locks and watching him shoot peeked my interest in this type of firearm. So if someone who owns one of these rifles can arrange a time to meet me at WW sometime I'll pay for a lesson in how they work and the ins and outs of em (plus letting me shoot them of course). But if not, then answering some of these noobish questions would be appreciated, cause I don't know hardly jack about this topic.

1. Where do you get blackpowder? I've been told only at gun shows but is this true?
2. I know you don't need to register a muzzleloader, but if I was to order one online would it need to be shipped to an FFL?
3. What book on black powder rifles and pistols would you recommend to a beginner?
4. What black powder rifle would you recommend to a newbie? I'd like a cap lock if possible....
5. What are some of the basic supplies needed for keeping and maintain one of these firearms?
6. Where do you buy the ammunition?

Thanks for your time.

 

[Mr Evilwrench]

I don't have one yet either, but I've been interested. You can get the powder and bullets at most gun shops. Last time I was at Gander they had them there. In IN we don't "register" anything, but for a muzzle loader you don't even need to fill out a 4473, and they don't need to go through an FFL. You can just order a rifle, or even replicas of the cap and ball pistols, and have them shipped to your house. If you really want to get into it, you can mold your own bullets. I've done this and it isn't hard, but that was for .45ACP.

 

[Dirty Steve]

If you have an interest in muzzle loaders, why not go out to the Blue River Longrifles range in Morristown during one of their shoots, since it is close to you. You can find their scheduled monthly shoot dates on their web page. I'd be willing to bet someone would let you shoot and answer your questions first hand. Learning from someone when it comes to muzzle loaders is probably best. They are a lot of fun, but have their own set of peculiarities.

There are a lot of things you need to decide on before you purchase one.
- You said you wanted a caplock,.. modern inline or historic reproduction?
- What do you intend to do with it, hunt or just target shoot? Makes a
difference on caliber choice in my opinion.
- Like everything else,...how much do you want to spend?


Dirty Steve

 

[ilikeguns]

1.) YOu can buy blackpowder pretty much anywhere. Wal-mart has it and any spoting goods store. It comes in powder or pellets in many brands. 2.)No it does not need to be shipped to a FFL. It is not considered a firearm. 3.)Don't know. 4.) Whole lot of good ones just have to do some research. 5.) You have to thoroughly clean a MZ every time you shoot it. It will rust and corrode faster than you can blink almost. There are a large number of products for this or some people just use hot soapy water. I like the Thompson Center line of natural products. Remember you cannot oil up the inside like a regular gun. Can't pour powder down an oily barrel. You will need a nipple wrench and a tool for removing the breech plug. Most guns come with this. You will need a cleaning jag and your ramrod will be your cleaning rod. A brush and patches obviously. 6.) Bullets are the same as powder, you can get them almost anywhere in a huge number of variations. If you are going to shoot roundball you normally will have to go to a sporting goods store as wal-mart usually just has sabots.......... Just learn as you go and have fun with it.

 

[Hookeye]

Wallyworld carries blackpowder subsitutes. Not blackpowder.

Pyrodex and other stuff doesn't have the corrosive chemical properties of BP.....but they tend to be very hygroscopic (draw moisture and cause oxidation).

Some BP substitutes may have significantly higher flash points as well.

They reportedly aren't as static or concussion sensitive (as regular BP).

 

[live2hunt009]

Depends how modern you want to go. If you want a nice inline then I would go with a Thompson Center Encore. They will provide you with a DVD typically in the box that teaches you how to care for the guns. If you want to go old school id get a Thompson Center Hawkens kit gun and build/put it together yourself.

 

[Hookeye]

IIRC TC hasn't offered a Hawken kit for some time.
I run a Hawken Silver Elite and use T7 granulated, with a Musket cap. It works but I still think regular FFg BP and a #11 cap was better.
The new Hawkens have QLA muzzles and that IMHO sucks.
One can find new old stock, minty used ones or even some kits that have never been put together, gotta shop around though.
If based on current new Hawken prices, expect to fork over a bit..........but then, maybe not. I've heard of some folks scoring great deals.

 

[O'Shark]

I found a near mint TC Hawken .50 cal for $150 at the now defunct Ludco gun shop in Parker City. It's well balanced and amazingly accurate with lead round balls.

You'll want a "possibles" bag or something like it. It'll hold your bullet starter, extra nipples, jags, caps and whatever you could "possibly" need. You'll want some type of powder flask. There are also inexpensive powder measures that you set for your powder charge and fill it to the top. You'll also need a bullet puller thing that screws onto your ramrod. Sooner or later, you'll ram a ball down the barrel and realize that you forgot to pour in your powder. The puller will thread into the ball or bullet and allow you to pull it back out. You'll want one of those little speed loaders for your percussion caps so you don't have to pick them out of a container.

As was stated earlier, the TC line of products are great. I use their pre-lubed patches and their cleaning patches too. They also have the cleaning jags, removers and tools that you'll want. I recommend a composite ramrod. I leave the wooden ramrod in my rifle for show but use my black ramrod for working with the gun. A wooden ramrod can break at the worst time and can become a spear and go right through your hand.

As for powder, I've only shot Goex triple Fg. I clean the bore after shooting by using the hottest water I can stand and a bit of soap. Remove the nipple and dunk the breach end in a bucket. Use a ramrod and a patch to pull water up through the bore like a pitcher pump. Do it several times then dry it out. If your water is hot enough, it'll dry almost immediately on its own.

 

[Hookeye]

I never used a capper, ran old Butler Creek speedloaders with cap recess in the lids when hunting.

 

[Hookeye]

Note: I have experienced different comb heights on a couple of Hawkens. My buds .54 and another's .50 were OK but kinda high. My Silver Elite is higher and with a heavy load is a cheek buster supreme. Maybe I'll get off my lazy butt and order a higher front sight and put a spacer under the rear to get my cheekbone off the stock.

I always run 100gr FFg or T7 when hunting. 240-385gr bullets.

Experimented and found bone cracking to be nonexistent with 80gr loads but I never hunt or even really target shoot with charges that light. Run 100 to 110 all the time.

 

[vedearduff]

Hey INGO,
I've been looking at muzzleloaders lately and they look interesting. Last time I was at Wilbur Wright there was a guy that had traditional style rifles, some flintlocks and cap locks and watching him shoot peeked my interest in this type of firearm. So if someone who owns one of these rifles can arrange a time to meet me at WW sometime I'll pay for a lesson in how they work and the ins and outs of em (plus letting me shoot them of course). But if not, then answering some of these noobish questions would be appreciated, cause I don't know hardly jack about this topic.

1. Where do you get blackpowder? I've been told only at gun shows but is this true?
2. I know you don't need to register a muzzleloader, but if I was to order one online would it need to be shipped to an FFL?
3. What book on black powder rifles and pistols would you recommend to a beginner?
4. What black powder rifle would you recommend to a newbie? I'd like a cap lock if possible....
5. What are some of the basic supplies needed for keeping and maintain one of these firearms?
6. Where do you buy the ammunition?

Thanks for your time.

If you want true black powder, you need to find a gun shop that still carries it. Ludco used to, but the shop has closed. The other option is to order it, it will be shipped directly to you.

If you want one of the substitutes, most gun shops will stock it.

If you are interested in a traditional muzzleloader, Scurlock Publishing has a 12 (I think) volume set called "The Book of Buckskinning". They also publish a magazine geared towards traditional muzzleloading called Muzzleloader. Books a Million in Muncie stocks the magazine.

If you are looking for a traditional cap lock, you should take a look at the Lyman Great Plains Rifle. This rifle is a fair approximation of a rifle from the late "Western Fur Trade" period. I believe that this rifle is offered in .50 and .54 caliber, both as a kit and as a complete rifle. It is also available as a flintlock.

For supplies; black powder, round balls, caps, patching material, lube, cleaning patches, and gun oil. You'll notice that I did not mention any solvent. With real black powder, all you need is water. That is all I've ever used and I've never had a problem with rust. I've been shooting muzzleloaders, off and on, since 1974.

I do recommend a good, stainless steel range rod along with a proper sized cleaning jag and a ball screw. Some companies make a CO2 ball discharger for removing a stuck ball or one loaded without a powder charge. There are two types of shooters in muzzleloading; those who have loaded without powder, and those who will do so. I admit to being among the former.

To purchase the bullets (round ball or otherwise), you should be able to get them where you purchase you powder, if you find a local source. You could also go to one of the mail order companies such as Track of The Wolf or Dixie Gun Works. I prefer casting my own, you can order the equipment from either of the companies above or any of several others.

Feel free to PM or e-mail me with any questions

 

[evanrw61]

You sir need immediate immersion therapy in the world of "smoke poles". Lets see if I can lead you in the right path. The home of the National Muzzle Loading Rifle Association is right here in south eastern Indiana in a town called Friendship.(www.nmlra.org) The fall Rendezvous is in September, and I highly reccommend you attend. There will be shooting matches, rifle builders and vendors that can sell you everything you need from books to flints. Add to that it's a weekend.
I have been building full stock Pennsylvanis rifles since I took a rifle making class from Mr. John Schippers at Conner Prarie Farm Museum in Fishers, Indiana, some twenty odd tears ago. Love every minute!
Kits that are semi finished are available, but some knowledge of tools and techniques is required. Try Jim Chambers Flintlocks for a guide.

Feel free to pm me with what your specific needs are and I'll try and help you out.

 

[Rev]

Those of you, who are real smoke pole shooters,you know who you are,the ones who use real BP, not the one in a tube form,the ones that smell like sulfur when done cleaning everything up,
You guys that shoot down at friendship and build your own rifles, anyone know Charlie and Joyce Smith,they would shoot at friendship every year until Charlie finally passed away. Charlie would build his own rifles in his garage, no one ever taught him he just had that Midas touch,
I spent many an hour in his garage has he helped me build mine, I now have a Vincent style flintlock .45cal,curly maple with German silver inlays,,
Was just hoping somebody knew Charlie and Joyce

 

[indy1919a4]

Just a thought

You know there are so many options and choices out there, it does seem almost cruel to keep dumping more options on someone..

Maybe a little get together with a few people and an assortment of guns and let this guy see them shot and shoot a couple.. It does not have to be a big affair but could be fun for all parties involved.... Could be done after work one day..

 

[Mr Evilwrench]

I might want in on that myself.

 

[evanrw61]

Those of you, who are real smoke pole shooters,you know who you are,the ones who use real BP, not the one in a tube form,the ones that smell like sulfur when done cleaning everything up,
You guys that shoot down at friendship and build your own rifles, anyone know Charlie and Joyce Smith,they would shoot at friendship every year until Charlie finally passed away. Charlie would build his own rifles in his garage, no one ever taught him he just had that Midas touch,
I spent many an hour in his garage has he helped me build mine, I now have a Vincent style flintlock .45cal,curly maple with German silver inlays,,
Was just hoping somebody knew Charlie and Joyce

I'm very sorry to hear about Mr. Smiths passing. I went to school with his children. Back in the day, Mr. Smith brought his rifles to school and went from class to class demonstrating their use and manufacturing process for history. He was a wonderful man and always so willing to help others.

Over time I got more enjoyment from making them, then shooting them so I currently don't have any left to shoot, or I would be glad to help out. I'm planning on a new rifle project for winter, but I'd be glad to help out anyone else who might have a question(s).

 

[Salty Possum]

You know there are so many options and choices out there, it does seem almost cruel to keep dumping more options on someone..

Maybe a little get together with a few people and an assortment of guns and let this guy see them shot and shoot a couple.. It does not have to be a big affair but could be fun for all parties involved.... Could be done after work one day..

I would love something like that!

 

[Salty Possum]

You sir need immediate immersion therapy in the world of "smoke poles". Lets see if I can lead you in the right path. The home of the National Muzzle Loading Rifle Association is right here in south eastern Indiana in a town called Friendship.(www.nmlra.org) The fall Rendezvous is in September, and I highly reccommend you attend. There will be shooting matches, rifle builders and vendors that can sell you everything you need from books to flints. Add to that it's a weekend.
I have been building full stock Pennsylvanis rifles since I took a rifle making class from Mr. John Schippers at Conner Prarie Farm Museum in Fishers, Indiana, some twenty odd tears ago. Love every minute!
Kits that are semi finished are available, but some knowledge of tools and techniques is required. Try Jim Chambers Flintlocks for a guide.

Feel free to pm me with what your specific needs are and I'll try and help you out.

Thanks man will do. I've heard about Friendship and the shoots that go on there, I'd love to go this fall. One question I have is do I need any special permits to take a muzzleloading pistol around to the range or no?