my thoughts(apologies for grammar and run ons)

[peterock]

Do I believe a hellfire and brimstone apocalypse is coming?? not really. I do believe we are on the brink of a complete and total economic break down in the US which will bring things that I'm not really ready to accept. I am a bartender in broad ripple and have noticed a huge drop in business in the past year. I know I shouldn't be the economic barometer of the entire country but I have always had the philosophy of "people drink when **** sucks, people drink when shits OK" well, people aren't out drinking like they used to. I have talked to some people who are living right around the poverty line, it's at the point where they either feed their kids and themselves or put gas in the car to get to work. If **** really hits the fan I think every single one of us will be in for a big surprise and a big wake up call, no matter how prepared you are. My hippie parents were real gung ho over the y2k melt down that was supposed to happen, I still stumble over expired canned green beans when I stroll through their basement. I wasn't at all concerned. The current situation in America has me scared ****-less. The generation under me has a complete disregard to authority and a sense of entitlement which boggles my mind daily(I'm sure the generations ahead of mine say the same about me). I am rapidly losing faith in our schools, our government and our society as a whole. Am I ready to cash in, move to Alberta grow a beard? Not at all. I guess what I'm getting at... I have a tension growing inside me that I haven't ever felt. I'm not an anxious person what so ever and would like to think I'm one of the more laid back even keeled people around but, damn I'm nervous. I know there is nothing I can do but mind my business and hope that everything works out and I'm just being overly sensitive. Any thoughts?

 

[Crystalship1]

FWIW, I think you make some good points and I don't think you're some kind of nut-case. Being prepared is a good thing. And I believe that you can do this without going bananas. I'd say as long as your preparations don't start interfering with your day to day activities, you're fine. I would say however, if you concerns start interfering with your life and your interactions with others.... maybe it's time to take a long look at your psyche. As far as feeling anxious about current world events?..... You'd have to have your head buried in the sand not to have some level of concern!!!

Of course this all comes from a guy that other than some guns and a modest supply of ammo, isn't prepared at all!!! :rolleyesedit:

 

[Shay]

I know there is nothing I can do but mind my business and hope that everything works out and I'm just being overly sensitive. Any thoughts?

The point I'd like to make is that there is almost always something you can do to make your situation better.

Having preps should be comforting and free your mind (at least partially) when things get bad.

Focus on putting away things that are critical to your survival. Something a lot of "survivalists" don't consider is that being debt free is a great way to enter a worsening economy.

My priorities are:

1. knowledge
2. Water (at least a reliable purification method)
3. Food
4. Guns and ammo
5. Cash
6. Barter goods

To me, knowledge is the most important because what I know isn't dependent on the things I own. Just buying a ton of stuff can make me marginally safer, but I'd rather know things than own things. Owning proper tools is simply a great way to make important tasks easier.

 

[nofear]

I think Shay hit some points. Some people have lots of guns/ammo set aside. Others don't think about what else may impact them. Water/food are essential. Also think about cash. With the dollar weakening, and if SHTF then the dollar is useless. Other barter goods may come into play.

I'm not a doom and gloom guy but I too think the economy will continue downward until this fall.

 

[NEOCON]

I have to agree with you Peterock. I believe we are at the beginning of the end.
Shay made a great point about being debt free and knowledge is more important than stuff.
I know we have a very large garden this year and will be buying another deep freeze for meat and frozen fruit and vegtables. Not because I believe the end is coming but simply because I believe the cost of food will be sky rocketing this time next year.
I know that right now corn is at the $8 mark and our local farmers are contracting their next years crop to sell at $12. So there will be another large jump in store bought meat and everything else this fall.
So I am doing everything I can to stay in a secure financialy stable position, by keeping the most of my paycheck rather than spening it to eat. Growing my own and saving is the best way for me.

 

[Electronrider]

A lot of survivalists love to ramantisize about the sudden SHTF scenarios. It jsut ain't gonna happen that way.

What we are seeing is the slow SHTF scenario that very few talk about. It is swallowing up the lowest of our social classes right now, and is working it's way up the chain. ( shockingly fast I might add)

You are right to be scared shitless.

We are witnessing the seperation of Am,erica into two groups, the have's, and the have not's. My wife and I are putting our nose to the grindstone right now, preparing for this. We are almost debt free ( less than 6 months will see us without debt), are building our armory, and we are also working our asses off to learn how to become self sufficient.

Some of my ( and the wife's) family just don't get it. They are actually laughing down their sleeves at us for doing all these " kooky hippy homesteading things". I feel sorry for them. Some of them are starting to see what is happening, but they really don't understand the implications yet. All they know right now is that vacation has to be really cut back this year, so the truck, boat, and camper will be paid on time.

Insulate yourself by getting into prepping. At the very least, you are building an inflation hedge with the savings in food costs by storing food away. Learn all you can about self sufficiency.

 

[flagtag]

A lot of survivalists love to ramantisize about the sudden SHTF scenarios. It jsut ain't gonna happen that way.

What we are seeing is the slow SHTF scenario that very few talk about. It is swallowing up the lowest of our social classes right now, and is working it's way up the chain. ( shockingly fast I might add)

You are right to be scared shitless.

We are witnessing the seperation of Am,erica into two groups, the have's, and the have not's. My wife and I are putting our nose to the grindstone right now, preparing for this. We are almost debt free ( less than 6 months will see us without debt), are building our armory, and we are also working our asses off to learn how to become self sufficient.

Some of my ( and the wife's) family just don't get it. They are actually laughing down their sleeves at us for doing all these " kooky hippy homesteading things". I feel sorry for them. Some of them are starting to see what is happening, but they really don't understand the implications yet. All they know right now is that vacation has to be really cut back this year, so the truck, boat, and camper will be paid on time.

Insulate yourself by getting into prepping. At the very least, you are building an inflation hedge with the savings in food costs by storing food away. Learn all you can about self sufficiency.

They may be laughing at you now, but watch them show up on your doorstep when it does hit. Slowly or not, the riots have already started in this country.

 

[SavageEagle]

You all make some good points. And up until this year I had been living like America the Great would live on forever, only worrying for the most part, about myself and my family. I watched the news, I kept current with all world events. I was worried that **** outside the USA was going straight to...

Now in this last year, year and a half, I have been playing it straight, learning how to become more and more self-sufficent, learning how and what to store back for whatever. I find myself listening more to 93.1 talk radio than my MP3 player. Which even has FM... I never considered getting my LTCH until this year. I always figured if America turning into Lebanon or some warzone I'd just get me a rifle and carry it with me. Which I still might do if things get any worse.

On the news last night they were showing how thieves broke into sheds for gas cans and left the most expensive tools and such behind. Risking felony breaking and entering for a GALLON OF GAS?!?!?! WTF?? Oh I remember the days of drive-offs at the pump from working at Speedway and Thornton's, which to be completely honest, OH WELL! They steal off us everyday, if you're brave and smart enought to get away with it, I won't stop you. I'll report it if it calls for it, but how can you call the cops because a family drove off with $20 of gas? Oppss, never seen them leave? Dunno what kinda car it was... NO I DON"T THINK ITS RIGHT TO STEAL GAS. But to steal it off of regular people, now that's something totally different. The Oil Companies, ok, regular people, no.

Neocon makes the great point about food prices. They WILL skyrocket, if not just for a short period. Would you turn someone in for stealing a loaf of bread? a gallon of milk? All just to feed their family? But if you don't think this is going to happen, it will. The more they make life unbearable, the more crime will go up. Nothing in my home or vehicle is worth your life... That's the old bumper sticker... well, I'm not so sure. I don't say this meaning that if times get hard enough I will steal to feed my family. I'm self-sufficent enough to grow or hunt my own food and I know how to purify water without the treatment of chemicals. But there are those out there who don't have that knowledge. There are those out there right now who are willing to steal to feed their families. Some families go to work just to be able to afford GAS TO GET TO WORK. The days of living away from your place of work are fading fast.

Just like you Peterock, I too am scared shitless. I'm scared that our economy is slowly AND quickly collapsing under the weight of all the BS laid out before us. I'm scared that if we don't stand up and say enough is enough, our government and our sheeple are going to destroy everything this Country stands for. It's no longer up to our government and big buisness (not that it ever was) to straighten this Country out. We have to prepare for the worst. Please take Shay's advice. He is SOOO right that knowledge is the most important tool you can save back. Having barter goods is great and all unless for some reason you are forced from your home. And as no fear suggests, money may not mean a damn thing in the future. As for being debt free, it depends on the debt. If SHTF, oweing money on a car, Credit card, novelty item won't matter a damn bit. Oweing money on a home or mortgage, that can cause some reason for concern. Not that the government can't take away your home for any reason at all anyway, but the lender could reposes it for its own purposes.

What I'm trying to say is that peaceably or forcefully, we can change this Country. We have the power, granted us by God and our Founding Fathers. The only questions that remain is how far are you willing to go and how many people can you convince that they have a say in this Country?

Again, like Disposable Heart, I do NOT advocate "raising up" against our somewhat tyranical government. But should it become necessary, I don't advocate sitting on your face and taking it up the arse either. I'm just saying we need to make changes in this Country if we are to survive the future.

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of Patriots, and Tyrants." (Put that in your hippie pipe and smoke it!)

 

[Disposable Heart]

Whenever someone declares something on the news that puts me a little at unease, I always go and buy two things (after all my other defensive expendatures): Booze and smokes. I figure if a gradual SHTF occurs, looting would be first. I want to have "barter goods" available in case of this. The folks looting will use their loot very quickly (usually in celebration of their misdeed). But then the source of these disposable commodities is dried up. People will have nic fits. People will want the bottle. I literally have a two cases of rum in my closet and over 20 cartons of a variety of light, menthol and full flavor cigs vaccum sealed in the garage. I dont smoke and like beer, not rum. Those are strategic commodities, enough to barter my way out of town if necessary or for a fuel gallons of go-juice (to use the Waterworld term for petrol). BTW: If one day, for some reason, everything is safe?! Party at my place! Whats your brand?

Rice is keepable and easy to make, not to mention cheap at todays levels. Vaccum sealing/suction is your friend.

Water filters are not so cheap, but can have good uses in non-SHTF concepts, like power outages.

Peterock: You are one of the few indicators of economic/political workings. Disposable income is a great indicator of economic strength. There are three things that mark a drastic situation in a country:
1. Disposable income: How is it being spent?
2. Price of bread/rice: Rising dramatically usually means falling economy, political strife coming.
3. Actions/training regime of local police and guard units: Higher activity means something.
I dont think you are a nutcase, thats my job!

Savage: Lets go get a beer sometime and swap politics!

 

[bwframe]

Whenever someone declares something on the news that puts me a little at unease, I always go and buy two things (after all my other defensive expendatures): Booze and smokes. I figure if a gradual SHTF occurs, looting would be first. I want to have "barter goods" available in case of this. The folks looting will use their loot very quickly (usually in celebration of their misdeed). But then the source of these disposable commodities is dried up. People will have nic fits. People will want the bottle. I literally have a two cases of rum in my closet and over 20 cartons of a variety of light, menthol and full flavor cigs vaccum sealed in the garage. I dont smoke and like beer, not rum. Those are strategic commodities, enough to barter my way out of town if necessary or for a fuel gallons of go-juice (to use the Waterworld term for petrol).

Genius! I think so.

BTW - What's your address? When SHTF, I'm coming to your place.

 

[SavageEagle]

Savage: Lets go get a beer sometime and swap politics!

Sounds good to me! I get paid Friday and have Wed. and Thur. off. I usually work 6am-330pm.

 

[flagtag]

I never thought of alcohol and cigs as barter items. Great idea!

 

[Disposable Heart]

The problem with the smokes is make sure to vaccum seal them, as dry air isnt tobacco's best friend. Cigarettes didnt work well in my humidor (too little space, plus the paper wasted away) but I had a pack sealed for a year (started the process when I arrived in Indy), gave it to a friend (new smoker) and he said it tasted really fresh.

If there is a catastrophic emergency, only critical items will most likely be transported, so booze and smokes may dry up. Not to mention, rum doesnt really go bad, and through compressed value, it will not lose value. An ear of corn is not much, but when made into alcohol form, it goes hundreds of times up in value.

Heck, even my small SHTF bag has a bottle of wine in it for "celebration".

Peterock: Generally, do you see alot of people going to cheaper alcohol in bars (like more domestics and well drinks) compared to top shelf booze? I ask as your points have me intrigued!

 

[peterock]

Peterock: Generally, do you see alot of people going to cheaper alcohol in bars (like more domestics and well drinks) compared to top shelf booze? I ask as your points have me intrigued!

For the most part people still drink what they drink.. It's the tipping they have decided to stop doing.

 

[nofear]

Maybe its just the Bartender

 

[bwframe]

How long have you been tending bar Peter?

 

[peterock]

5 and a half years... Im a youngin, only 27 years old.

 

[peterock]

Maybe its just the Bartender

you are probably right

 

[bwframe]

5 and a half years... Im a youngin, only 27 years old.

I tended bar for 6ish years. Any given day, it can be the best or the worst job in the world. After a while, it's hard to stay above getting jaded or burnt out.

 

[Disposable Heart]

Sad, you guys having to put up with assholes like me all the time . I tend to suck up to the tenders... I know it doesnt work for more booze, but it does allow them an outlet from time to time...

Pete: Sucks about the tipping man. From what I hear, that is the mainstay (like a waiter/ess) of their pay. Why not roll them for their wallets at the door? The're drunk anyway