National Debt / personal debt

[Turtle]

Im just wondering how many people will vote / reply on this and admit most of us are part of the problem. And wondering if anyone has a simple solution. I myself use most of my tax refund for buying toys. And would be willing to give half if not all of one tax return to pay down the national debt and see the nation that i love become a solvent and prosperous nation once again. And im well aware that my simple thought sounds naive. This is done so others might comment, clarify and contribute. Thanks

 

[Streak]

Im just wondering how many people will vote / reply on this and admit most of us are part of the problem. And wondering if anyone has a simple solution. I myself use most of my tax refund for buying toys. And would be willing to give half if not all of one tax return to pay down the national debt and see the nation that i love become a solvent and prosperous nation once again. And im well aware that my simple thought sounds naive. This is done so others might comment, clarify and contribute. Thanks

Why do people keep comparing personal debt to national debt? The nation isn't a person and different rules apply. It's not a company, it's not a person. Why do we try to treat it as such? An example is when the US helped Japan rebuild itself, despite Japan owing the US many times it's country's worth. The same with Germany. Countries don't work with like people and businesses. I strongly doubt, unless we start missing debt payments, that our borrowing amount is really a horrid concern as it seems to be claimed. I'm pretty sure that when the US tanks, every other country will too.

 

[squidvt]

I have minor debt (AKA Small Car loan). I let my self get in pretty deep about 5 years ago. HARD work.. and I payed it back.

 

[MCgrease08]

The problem is, if you donated your tax return back to .gov they wouldn't use it to pay down debt. They would use it to buy more toys, like bombers, battleships, jets, drones and tanks. They would start another unnecessary war and leave their expensive toys in the sandbox to rust away.

That or they would simply give it away in the form of entitlements.

I'm not giving any more of my money to .gov. They're already making enough interest off of it during the year. That's why they collect taxes in the first place. The real issue stems from the instant gratification culture. Or economy is built on credit and creating debt. Sadly politicians are too beholden to corporate dollars and donors to do anything to reign it in.

 

[Turtle]

Well I posted to seem very simple but just as my quote states its the banks and the corporations that have forced our countrymen into homelessness in a country there ancestors conquered. In the 60-70's a man could goto colage to become a DR. this same person could work part time and pay for his own housing, food, clothes, and even pay towards his education. And after completing his degree would have a remaining balance that could be paid down easily with his nice new job. The economics then where better suited any one who was willing to work for the america dream. we was a nation of doers. In today's economy such a dream is out of reach and those who do make it are in debt that will take them half a lifetime to pay down. In many cases the loans and personal debt outweigh the benefits of a degree. collage loans will soon suffer another hit as did the housing market this is all controlled by the banks.......

 

[rockhopper46038]

Positive net worth is much more important than total debt, although the second derivative of net worth change is even more important. I wouldn't give an additional tax return worth of revenue to .gov. It has already shown no responsibility in spending the massive, confiscatory level of revenue those relatively few of us that actually pay income taxes deliver unto it.

 

[2ADMNLOVER]

Well , according to this U.S. National Debt Clock : Real Time I owe $ 53, 532 and for the life of me I can't figure out what service was rendered to me to rack up that kind of bill .

I've never called the cops , medics or firemen and didn't go to college .

I've been a soldier and an EMT so I like to think I've given something back to my country , apparently not enough to still have such a high bill .

 

[Bigtanker]

Mortgage and car is it. No credit cards, personal loans or anything like that. I was way in over my head about 12 years ago. A motorcycle accident pushed me over the edge. Had to file bankruptcy. Since then it has been cash for most everything. If we can't afford it, we don't buy it. The ONLY reason we have a car payment is with the addition of two kids, we needed more space than a Dodge Neon. We some cash set aside for emergencies.

It helps that I can work OT whenever I want/need a little exrta cash.

As far as giving up some of my hard earned money to help get the country out of debt, sure, if it would work AND the lazy a$$ people who live off your money and mine would do there part (ie get a job and pull their own weight). But that will never happen so I'll keep my money.

 

[caverjamie]

Why do people keep comparing personal debt to national debt? The nation isn't a person and different rules apply. It's not a company, it's not a person. Why do we try to treat it as such? An example is when the US helped Japan rebuild itself, despite Japan owing the US many times it's country's worth. The same with Germany. Countries don't work with like people and businesses. I strongly doubt, unless we start missing debt payments, that our borrowing amount is really a horrid concern as it seems to be claimed. I'm pretty sure that when the US tanks, every other country will too.

I would prefer that we were spending excesses loaning out money and receiving interest payments rather than being the borrowers. What worries me isn't so much that we have a debt, but the fact that it continuously grows larger. Doesn't that worry you?

Oh and on the topic of the poll, we just have a mortgage but no other debt at this point. My wife got into Dave Ramsey and sucked me in.

 

[Streak]

Well , according to this U.S. National Debt Clock : Real Time I owe $ 53, 532 and for the life of me I can't figure out what service was rendered to me to rack up that kind of bill .

I've never called the cops , medics or firemen and didn't go to college .

I've been a soldier and an EMT so I like to think I've given something back to my country , apparently not enough to still have such a high bill .

First off, I respect and appreciate your service. But that doesn't mean you get some sort of "credit". You volunteered for the army unless you were a Vietnam War vet. Assuming you volunteered during the Gulf War or these recent conflicts you get free access to medical care. You got (unless you didn't use them) a lot of very good GI benefits. I've got a buddy getting out of the Army in 60 days. He's already working on his Master'd degree -- will not have paid a dime out of pocket for any of his college education. He also saved up a bunch of his leave time so he continues to draw a paycheck for a couple of months after he gets out.

These are benefits that the government gives you. Try to retire today with 3 months worth of PTO...most places I've worked will either wipe it out entirely or allow you to cash it out at less than 100% of its value.

Secondly, do you enjoy clean air, water, safe medications, food? Do you drive on the interstate? You no longer serve, but I assume you're still protected by our military forces. Do we enjoy the imports of products (including that computer that you're typing this on) which have mandated warranties are checked by the FCC to ensure they don't produce enough interference to knock out your TV? Do you like the research that brought you the very internet that you complain about the internet on? How about any medical advances that your family may have used which are partially (if not entirely) funded by grants?

Just because a black suited guy didn't hand you stuff, doesn't mean you didn't benefit.

 

[Streak]

I would prefer that we were spending excesses loaning out money and receiving interest payments rather than being the borrowers. What worries me isn't so much that we have a debt, but the fact that it continuously grows larger. Doesn't that worry you?

Not really, no. I don't foresee any nation getting upset. They're more upset when we decide to not set aside money for our loans. Other nations are heavily invested in the US dollar...that's why when AIG collapsed, it hit the stock markets in OTHER nations. At the end of the day the US is entirely globalized, we can't fail without causing everyone else to fail in our wake.

 

[Kurr]

The United States borrows its "money" or currency from a PRIVATE central bank. Every dollar and credit that exists in circulation was borrowed from that bank AT INTEREST which was never created.

Because of this, it is mathamatically impossible to pay off the "national debt" under the current system.

My solution would be for the .gov to do away with a private for profit bank issueing credit at interest and to issue it's own interest free currency, such as the system we had at our founding and or the interest free greenbacks that Lincoln used to finance the Union forces.

Just my .02

 

[2ADMNLOVER]

Secondly, do you enjoy clean air, water, safe medications, food? Do you drive on the interstate? You no longer serve, but I assume you're still protected by our military forces. Do we enjoy the imports of products (including that computer that you're typing this on) which have mandated warranties are checked by the FCC to ensure they don't produce enough interference to knock out your TV? Do you like the research that brought you the very internet that you complain about the internet on? How about any medical advances that your family may have used which are partially (if not entirely) funded by grants?

Just because a black suited guy didn't hand you stuff, doesn't mean you didn't benefit.

So you're going with obummer's " you didn't build that " line of reasoning , ok got it .

 

[AtTheMurph]

Only a mortgage. Looking at buying another property ad will get another mortgage even though I could pay cash but with rates so low I'd rather use the banks fake money rather than my own.

 

[AtTheMurph]

Not really, no. I don't foresee any nation getting upset. They're more upset when we decide to not set aside money for our loans. Other nations are heavily invested in the US dollar...that's why when AIG collapsed, it hit the stock markets in OTHER nations. At the end of the day the US is entirely globalized, we can't fail without causing everyone else to fail in our wake.

So you believe that at no point in the future will these other countries stop believing in the US dollar as a store of value, even though there are now trillions of dollars floating around and will be quadrillions more created out of thin air?

I guess I'd like to believe in Unicorns and the Tooth-fairy too but I am a person who believes that history repeats. We are making the very same mistakes that all countries that issue fiat currency have made in the past. and history is not kind to money printers.

When a country's money dies as the dollar most certainly will, really bad things happen, society breaks down, wars get started, morals decay and disappear as people do anything simply to survive. I do agree however that the rest of the world will fail along with us since the majority of international business and "savings" are denominated in US dollars. That is starting to change but the pain many nations will have to suffer because of our profligate spending and consumption will not be forgotten by them.

In fact I think it's going to make them pretty pissed off. But first they will flood our markets with all those dollars we have printed and sent overseas setting off a hyper inflationary event. Those that start cashing in their dollars first will win, those that hold out will lose. The loser more than likely will be our biggest and best allies too. That's going to leave us friendless as we stiff them with the bill.

 

[hookedonjeep]

Myself, I don't have credit cards, but I have 2 car notes, and 2 kids.... Enough said...

 

[BehindBlueI's]

Two mortgages and one small car note @ 1.39% interest that doesn't make sense to pay off. My net worth is about three times my annual salary. Debt isn't necessarily bad if its leveraged correctly. One of my mortgages is on a rental property that has $200/mo postive cash flow. Without debt, I couldn't have the property and wouldn't have that income.

No credit card debt, no student loans, etc.

 

[Jarhead77]

Streak. Can you please tell me why you think your buddy didn't pay a cent towards his masters?

 

[spencer rifle]

No debt, no mortgage, credit cards (2) always paid in full and on time, cars all paid for, one in college and one possibly starting next year. All on one salary that, until this year, qualified for reduced lunch and Medicaid. That also means no cable, no fancy phones with data plan, no big screen, few meals out, lots of repair/make do/reuse, no expensive addictions (though I could REALLY use an SVT 40 or an M1).

 

[mik1202002]

We have the mortgage, car loan which will be paid off around January, then we have two students. We could of probably been close to having everything paid off but we decided to contribute to our roths and pay extra on the house. We don't have kids...yet