ND at Boone County Courthouse

[foszoe]

In the 80s, I was a teenager. My Grandpa instilled in me the deepest sense of personal responsibility. He was a die hard WV democrat. Ironically his values seemed most embraced by a Republican Ronald Reagan.

I read these threads and think to myself, for some people, where does the buck actually stop and I can only conclude it isn't where my Grandpa said anymore.

 

[jcwit]

I've never had one.

If I make a mistake, I may.

It is not inevitable that I will.

The more I follow the rules, the less chance I will.

To my knowledge, no one here has claimed they are immune, only that it won't happen unless they make a mistake.

I made a post earlier about what happened to me. No mistake made by me, defective firearm. See my posts #16 & #18, this thread.

 

[jcwit]

I'm always learning. That's different from some, eh?

Not quite god-like yet, but working on it. I know where my gun gets pointed though and I'm happy to educate you how to handle yours safely.

I do not think I need you to educate me on handling anything, thanks anyway!

Let us know when you become God-like.

 

[HoughMade]

I made a post earlier about what happened to me. No mistake made by me, defective firearm. See my posts #16 & #18, this thread.

Well then that's not a negligent discharge....which is what I was talking about.

 

[bwframe]

Sure, there is a huge difference . . . in the end results. The actual event is unintentional and a result of negligence in both cases in my opinion.

Yet not the same "negligence" as OP officer friendly whose finger should have never been in the trigger guard at all much less even had his gun out of the holster.

I do not think I need you to educate me on handling anything, thanks anyway!...

But your posts are screaming that you need educated.

 

[Cameramonkey]

I think there needs to be different terminology. In my mind, your "negligence" of touching off a round early that stops in the berm is not the same as one sent over the berm on a reload or into the ground by our feet. There is a vast difference between your finger on the trigger when it can be and when it specifically shouldn't be.

So by that definition, drunk driving is only bad if you crash your car or kill somebody. No harm, no foul, right? By sending the round safely into the berm, it's still a ND , just nothing bad happened thanks to the other rules.

 

[bwframe]

So by that definition, drunk driving is only bad if you crash your car or kill somebody. No harm, no foul, right? By sending the round safely into the berm, it's still a ND , just nothing bad happened thanks to the other rules.

By that definition drunk driving is only bad if you are drinking. No drinking = no drunk driving.
The same would apply to your finger not being in the trigger guard until you are on target.

 

[jcwit]

But your posts are screaming that you need educated.

Your opinion, such as it is, but really not my problem.

Ever worked as a RO at a National Match?

Are you certified by the NRA in any capacity?

My posts scream COMMON SENSE!

 

[MohawkSlim]

I won't join that inevitable group of ND'ers if I keep it in my holster.

"I'm thinking about carrying a gun like yours. Can I see that?"
"Yes you can see it; you have eyes. Did you mean, 'may I handle it?', because no, you may not. I have a strict about removing from my holster. Sorry."

I don't believe you. Anyone with 6,000+ posts on a gun forum - who carries a gun - has shown it to someone.

Mitigating the ND risk by leaving it in the holster unconditionally (or, I guess you only remove yours when Kirk does?) doesn't seem like a very plausible stance. Even you have to have an acceptable method of removing your firearm from the holster for things like cleaning, maintenance, firing, and just general coonfingering.

the belief that something can happen, but is entirely preventable through constant vigilance.

Would that constant vigilance be by human beings?

I agree we can take it down to near zero but as long as humans are involved there's never a 100% safe way to do anything. Believing it's preventable is where we run into the issues. All the talk about "always" is what leads us into issues. Sometimes "always" doesn't apply. In those instances, we're perfectly capable of making safety plans and procedures that work.

If we want to remove our gun from the holster to coonfinger it and show our buddy there's a safe way to do it. That's not being a bearded operator, that's simply acknowledging the risk and overcoming it by putting a procedure that works in place. In other words, being vigilant!

 

[BehindBlueI's]

Here's the ADs resulting in injury in Marion Co so far this year. I'm sure 0% would have been prevented by semantic arguments.

Juvenile male playing with gun, shot self.
Adult putting gun in night stand, shot self.
Adult handling gun inside car in parking lot, shot self while clearing it.
Adult punctuating argument with handgun shot self.
Juvenile in back seat playing with gun shoots juvenile in front seat through the seat.
Adult shot self in groin holstering (waist-banding?) gun after criminal act
Adult shot family member showing shootee how to properly break down his new gun.
Adult shot self topping off magazine and pulling trigger after dropping mag.
Adult shot self while breaking down gun to clean.
Adult shot self while installing gun light.
Adult shot self in palm, refused to say how.
Adult shot self in hand, claimed mechanical malfunction.
Adult shot self while pocket carrying.
Adult claimed dropped revolver while cocked, causing discharge into family member.

 

[rhino]

I heard part of a news story on the radio today where some jackass in Florida shot and killed his 13 year old cousin . . . "accidentally" . . . while he (the shooter) was trying to ride one of those hover board things.

13-year-old Ocoee boy dies after accidental shooting linked to hoverboard - Orlando Sentinel

Just after 11 p.m. on Monday, Lavardo became Orange County's eighth gunshot fatality in the past week — and the youngest victim in Orange and Seminole counties this year. Lavardo was playing Xbox on Sunday when he was accidentally shot in the back of the head by his cousin. The 18-year-old shooter was on a hoverboard and lost his balance, causing the gun to fire.

This has to be in the top 10 all time most negligent of all negligent discharges in the history of the world.

 

[chipbennett]

Would that constant vigilance be by human beings?

I agree we can take it down to near zero but as long as humans are involved there's never a 100% safe way to do anything. Believing it's preventable is where we run into the issues. All the talk about "always" is what leads us into issues. Sometimes "always" doesn't apply. In those instances, we're perfectly capable of making safety plans and procedures that work.

If we want to remove our gun from the holster to coonfinger it and show our buddy there's a safe way to do it. That's not being a bearded operator, that's simply acknowledging the risk and overcoming it by putting a procedure that works in place. In other words, being vigilant!

Part of the equation is the attitude of the fallible human involved: pride or humility. That constant vigilance requires enough humility to recognize that one is fallible, and even with the best intentions, can still make a mistake and act negligently. Maybe others view such stories differently, but I read these ND posts as a sober reminder that letting my own guard down can lead to similar results.

I also recognize that I'm a creature of habit, and that I'll act instinctively in the manner in which I've disciplined myself to act. That's why I'm always very deliberate in the manner in which I handle firearms. My procedure for dressing/undressing, including how I holster/unholster my EDC (I have separate holsters for carry and for non-carry storage of my EDC), is exactly the same, every time. Even if I'm really tired at the end of the day, from the moment my EDC starts "clearing Kydex" until it is safely stored, I'm focusing on exactly what I'm doing.

I do that kind of thing because I already know that I'm fully capable of making a mistake, and that's not a mistake I ever want to make.

 

[Kirk Freeman]

Would that constant vigilance be by human beings?

Not doing silly stuff like pointing guns at people or playing gun show.

Sometimes "always" doesn't apply.

Like when you are attempting to separate yourself from the herd in the Charge of the 300. Look, this is INGO, we are used to rationalizations for unsafe behavior, but these rationalizations hurt us in the long run.

That's not being a bearded operator

Stupid crap like this incident is nothing but Beard Logic. Beard Logic dictates that because I am a special snowflake, I can rationalize unsafe behavior.

 

[lovemachine]

Part of the equation is the attitude of the fallible human involved: pride or humility. That constant vigilance requires enough humility to recognize that one is fallible, and even with the best intentions, can still make a mistake and act negligently. Maybe others view such stories differently, but I read these ND posts as a sober reminder that letting my own guard down can lead to similar results.

I also recognize that I'm a creature of habit, and that I'll act instinctively in the manner in which I've disciplined myself to act. That's why I'm always very deliberate in the manner in which I handle firearms. My procedure for dressing/undressing, including how I holster/unholster my EDC (I have separate holsters for carry and for non-carry storage of my EDC), is exactly the same, every time. Even if I'm really tired at the end of the day, from the moment my EDC starts "clearing Kydex" until it is safely stored, I'm focusing on exactly what I'm doing.

I do that kind of thing because I already know that I'm fully capable of making a mistake, and that's not a mistake I ever want to make.

Why do you have separate holsters for storage of your EDC? Why not just eliminate the risk of a ND all together, and keep the firearm holstered when you store it?

 

[chipbennett]

Why do you have separate holsters for storage of your EDC? Why not just eliminate the risk of a ND all together, and keep the firearm holstered when you store it?

The firearm IS holstered when I store it.

I carry in an IWB holster, which I prefer to be empty when I place on/remove it from my belt. Also, the IWB holster doesn't work as well for storage/night gun use. I have a separate holster for that purpose, that is better suited.

 

[bwframe]

...Ever worked as a RO at a National Match?...

So you have been at the matches I've worked?
Seems like you have an odd posting mentality for an individual that must be disciplined enough not to be DQ'd?

 

[seagullplayer]

I've never had one.

If I make a mistake, I may.

It is not inevitable that I will.

The more I follow the rules, the less chance I will.

To my knowledge, no one here has claimed they are immune, only that it won't happen unless they make a mistake.

That right there.

 

[JettaKnight]

So, where's the safe place to put it in a bathroom stall?

 

[HoughMade]

So, where's the safe place to put it in a bathroom stall?

In the holster.

 

[Kirk Freeman]

So, where's the safe place to put it in a bathroom stall?

Alright, you. You behave.