Need help on scope shimming

[HuntMeister]

I've never had to shim one before but apparently I will need to? The rifle is an Encore with a Weaver rail, Burris Zee rings medium heigth and a Leupold VX-II. I ran out of scope adjustment when trying to raise my POI. I am close but I think I will need to get atleast another 6" of travel at 100 yards and think I would like more as I continue load development for this rifle. I have had this scope on a couple of different rifles over the years and never an issue.

FWIW, the Burris rings are the 2nd set of rings on this gun. I had the very same issue with the former rings.

 

[redneckmedic]

some say a small sliver of aluminum foil, some say a little electrical tape. You can put it either on the front bottom ring or the back top, I would go front bottom ring. One piece should be all you need.

Disclaimer: This is theory only for me, I have never done it, and I don't know how well it works. Also tighten your ring screws like lug nuts, make sure the gaps are all the same around the rings. Might want to double check my shim placement to, I think thats right.

Other options are to buy a canted rail (20 degrees is most popular)

 

[HuntMeister]

some say a small sliver of aluminum foil, some say a little electrical tape. You can put it either on the front bottom ring or the back top, I would go front bottom ring. One piece should be all you need.

Disclaimer: This is theory only for me, I have never done it, and I don't know how well it works. Also tighten your ring screws like lug nuts, make sure the gaps are all the same around the rings. Might want to double check my shim placement to, I think thats right.

Other options are to buy a canted rail (20 degrees is most popular)

Canted rail...never knew and that sounds like a better fix than shimming but I just don't know. Thanks!

 

[Turn Key]

Have you tried "High Rings" ?

All of the scopes that I've used (6) have worked perfectly with high rings.

~TK

 

[kolob10]

Over the years I've encountered this problem several time - recently with a Remington 700. Brownells has scope shims I believe on their website. You can use regular SS shimstock. I have found that .001" shim roughly equates to 1" change in point of impact at 100 yards. The correct way to mount is to shim the base what is necessary and then lap your rings properly. Remember that when you shim just rings, you will be stressing the scope to some degree and this can in extreme cases cause internal scope issues. Lapping will insure that those stresses are minimized. Shimming just the base is the way to go.

An easier solution would be to try a pair of Burris signature rings and see if you can get the elevation gain that you need. These rings have eccentric inserts that allow you to compensate for issues such that you are experiencing. If you live close by, I would be glad to help you with this problem. Email or pm me if you need further assistance.

 

[HuntMeister]

Over the years I've encountered this problem several time - recently with a Remington 700. Brownells has scope shims I believe on their website. You can use regular SS shimstock. I have found that .001" shim roughly equates to 1" change in point of impact at 100 yards. The correct way to mount is to shim the base what is necessary and then lap your rings properly. Remember that when you shim just rings, you will be stressing the scope to some degree and this can in extreme cases cause internal scope issues. Lapping will insure that those stresses are minimized. Shimming just the base is the way to go.

An easier solution would be to try a pair of Burris signature rings and see if you can get the elevation gain that you need. These rings have eccentric inserts that allow you to compensate for issues such that you are experiencing. If you live close by, I would be glad to help you with this problem. Email or pm me if you need further assistance.

Thanks for the offer to help and the info! I am in Hendricks county so I am guessing not close by.

 

[IndyGunworks]

You can put it either on the front bottom ring or the back top

shimming the top of ANY ring cap either front or back, will not change anything downrange. ALWAYS shim under the scope or between the ring and the base.

in your case since you are shooting low, try a piece of electrical tape under the scope in the rear ring. that may or may not help. 6 inches is not a TON but is quite a bit.

a canted base, or canted rings are always the better solution than shimming.

 

[HuntMeister]

shimming the top of ANY ring cap either front or back, will not change anything downrange. ALWAYS shim under the scope or between the ring and the base.

in your case since you are shooting low, try a piece of electrical tape under the scope in the rear ring. that may or may not help. 6 inches is not a TON but is quite a bit.

a canted base, or canted rings are always the better solution than shimming.

Thanks! Do you know where here in Indy one might find canted rings or bases?

 

[HuntMeister]

Lapping rings...another area I've never ventured into. Is this pretty easy as well?

 

[Jay]

Consider a set of Burris Signature Zee rings, along with the insert set. That combination will allow you to offset your scope .040" or more, without having to lap rings, or shim, or chance marking the tube.

 

[IndyGunworks]

Lapping rings...another area I've never ventured into. Is this pretty easy as well?

Lapping will not help his situation. its just for better scope to ring contact and will not change where the scope is pointed.

Consider a set of Burris Signature Zee rings, along with the insert set. That combination will allow you to offset your scope .040" or more, without having to lap rings, or shim, or chance marking the tube.

These are the only affordable (budget minded anyways) rings that i have experience with that have the canted option and they work well.

www.brownells.com

 

[HuntMeister]

THANKS so much for the help fellas!!
I have a email out to Burris to see if I can use the inserts in the Zee rings I currently have or if I have to get the Signature line.

 

[Jay]

THANKS so much for the help fellas!!
I have a email out to Burris to see if I can use the inserts in the Zee rings I currently have or if I have to get the Signature line.

Look at the inside of the rings. If that inner surface is flat, you cannot use inserts in them. If that inner surface is concave, you can use the insert kit.

 

[HuntMeister]

Look at the inside of the rings. If that inner surface is flat, you cannot use inserts in them. If that inner surface is concave, you can use the insert kit.

THANKS Jay!

 

[sloughfoot]

Is it possible that the rings for your rifle are taller one way or the other? And that they are reversed? Or the base?

6 inches off after adjusting the scope 12 to 20 inches from center on a 100 yard target is a lot.

There is something majorly wrong. Shimming can fix it, but the proper rings and base, properly installed, could fix it too.

I would look real close to what is on the rifle. And what is supposed to be used on the rifle. Maybe you are not using the correct rings?

I admit, I don't know. But I do know there are specialized setups for certain rifles out there.

 

[HuntMeister]

Is it possible that the rings for your rifle are taller one way or the other? And that they are reversed? Or the base?

6 inches off after adjusting the scope 12 to 20 inches from center on a 100 yard target is a lot.

There is something majorly wrong. Shimming can fix it, but the proper rings and base, properly installed, could fix it too.

I would look real close to what is on the rifle. And what is supposed to be used on the rifle. Maybe you are not using the correct rings?

I admit, I don't know. But I do know there are specialized setups for certain rifles out there.

I too wonder if something is amiss here. This is the second set of rings and the same result with both and the rings aere of different mfg too. This a 50 cal douglas barrel I had made for smokeless muzzleloading. It is a really big diameter and I'm no expert but I wondered if that has any affect. I found a set of the Burris signature serires Zee rings. Only after I got them home I realized that the set of inserts that come with them do not correct, they are 0 degree.
I now have to see if Bob at Plainfield has the adjusting insert kit.

I did speak with the folks who made the barrel for me and this is not the first time this has happened with this setup so there must be something to it.

 

[IndyGunworks]

I wouldnt say something is amiss here. these things just happen sometimes. I think you would be suprised how often we have a scope base that wont allow us to zero w/out either cant adjustments or shimming.

 

[HuntMeister]

I wouldnt say something is amiss here. these things just happen sometimes. I think you would be suprised how often we have a scope base that wont allow us to zero w/out either cant adjustments or shimming.

Good to know Indygunworks!

I've another question for ya if I may. With the correcting inserts, should I try to get the scope as close to center of adjustment or just get it good enough to get the change of POI I need? Does it matter?

 

[IndyGunworks]

The closer you are to center the better. but in your case i would be happy to have a 100 yard zero w/ around 10 moa from being maxed out. you dont want to zero at the extremes of the elevation. not only will it limit windage, but may cause some issues holding zero on cheaper optics.

another thing to try is lower rings, and possibly a scope w/ a 30mm tube to get a higher range of adjustment.

 

[IndyGunworks]

also try swapping the front to the rear, cheaper rings are not always even.