need some advice on reloading .357 mag.

[oldpink]

That's no great revelation.
That's also the reason that you should never substitute magnum primers for standard primers with the exact same powder charge, especially when you're at maximum charge level.
Again, why overthink this when you can just invest the ~$35 and get a box of magnum primers to go with your standard primers, go with what the manuals list, and rest easy?

 

[17 squirrel]

That's no great revelation.
That's also the reason that you should never substitute magnum primers for standard primers with the exact same powder charge, especially when you're at maximum charge level.
Again, why overthink this when you can just invest the ~$35 and get a box of magnum primers to go with your standard primers, go with what the manuals list, and rest easy?

Yep,Thats as simple as it gets. Use the right part for the right job.
I love the reloaders that always seem to know more that the company that manufactures the product.
Its all good until a failure and you get a faceful of gas or the magazine blows out the bottom of your rifle. that extra 3 bucks for the correct primer would have been a good deal.

 

[jstory]

Not really sure if I have misunderstood what some here have been saying. I have been saying to use small pistol primers, not magnum primers. My Lyman manual tells me to use magnum primers, but the Alliant rep says to NOT use magnum primers. Who does a person listen to? I have contradicting information. I have said the whole time to use small pistol, just didn't remember why the rep said. He said powder spikes from over ignition of the powder. Just trying to make sure this guy gets the information he needs. Bottom line, call Alliant and ask them. I'm sure they will give the most up to date information they have for any given powder the sell.

 

[billybob44]

Over ignition of the powder???

"He said powder spikes from over ignition of the powder"

^^^NOW, That's a new one on me?? Over ignition of the powder???

I have always came to believe that a handloader ALWAYS wants to give the powder the Max flame to it?...Bill.

 

[jstory]

"He said powder spikes from over ignition of the powder"

^^^NOW, That's a new one on me?? Over ignition of the powder???

I have always came to believe that a handloader ALWAYS wants to give the powder the Max flame to it?...Bill.

I'm new to reloading...I will not give advice that I believe to be true...or will not use myself. I have heard this before, using a magnum primer on black powder. I can not say that I understand myself, but like I said before, I am new to all this. Which is the biggest reason I called Alliant to begin with.

 

[17 squirrel]

I have no idea why the Alliant rep would tell you that. lets look at it this way, Bullseye powder [ very fast burn ] is about # 10 in the smokless burn rate chart with #1 burning the fastest, 2400 powder is around #105 and for pistol its on of the slowest powders you can use when you are loading a magnum pistol round. the powder numbers go to over 200. Magnum primers [ a hotter & longer burn than standard primers ] are used when loading slow burning powder to make sure you have excellent and full combustion of the powder.

 

[17 squirrel]

I'm new to reloading...I will not give advice that I believe to be true...or will not use myself. I have heard this before, using a magnum primer on black powder. I can not say that I understand myself, but like I said before, I am new to all this. Which is the biggest reason I called Alliant to begin with.

I can tell you that when loading Black Powder Cartridges I use nothing but large rifle magnum primers. I shoot bpcr silhouette and bpcr long range with 40-65 45-70 and 45-90. And just about every other person i know that shoots bpcr uses mag primers.

 

[jstory]

J

I can tell you that when loading Black Powder Cartridges I use nothing but large rifle magnum primers. I shoot bpcr silhouette and bpcr long range with 40-65 45-70 and 45-90. And just about every other person i know that shoots bpcr uses mag primers.

Failed to mention that I was talking about sidelocks, using percussion caps.

I'm new to all this, I am only relaying the information that was given to me. If I am wrong, I will be the first to admit it.

 

[kludge]

I have no idea why the Alliant rep would tell you that.

I do. He knows the powder better than anyone else.

mtinner and jstory...

Magnum primers are not needed for 2400. Period. NONE of my 2400 loads have ever used a magnum primer. All of them went bang.

Can you use magnum primers? Yes. If the load manual says to.

Don't over think it. The load manual will tell you EXACTLY what primer they used. Use that primer if you can, or at the very least, use the same type. If the manual says magnum, don't use standard. If the load manual says standard, don't use magnum. If Remington says don't use 1-1/2 for magnum loads, don't do it. Simple. Start low and work up.

Given a choice, I will ALWAYS go with the advise of the powder company ballistician over ANYONE else. If the published data the powder company posts online doesn't list the load you want to use, call or email and ask them for their recommended load with the powder, bullet, and primer you want to use. More times than not you will get a prompt courteous answer. Sometimes the answer is "not recommended".

 

[oldpink]

Just to add more detail to the good advice that 17squirrel and kludge are providing, I would like to point out that Alliant's information is different from what the manuals themselves will give you.
Alliant is giving you general information based on incomplete data, while the manuals will list the bullet (often the exact brand, weight, and style of bullet), case (Winchester, Federal, Starline, Remington, or ???), primer type and brand (CCI, Remington, Winchester, Federal, Fiocchie, or ???), and weight and type of powder.
On top of all that, the manuals will more often than not even provide the pressure readings for each load from starting all the way up to maximum.
Unless there's a bullet or powder so new that it's not in the manuals yet, I'll go with the MANUAL data that matches my chosen load most closely any time over just picking up the phone and asking for a powder company to give me some generalities.
Not trying to be insulting here, but you seem to be doing all you possibly can to disprove what's clearly printed in the manuals.
Those manuals don't just throw a given powder charge in a case, fire it, then throw away the case without checking to see if it's safe.
They use a scientifically established method (either the old style copper crusher or the modern piezo-electronic transducer) to measure the pressure levels to see that they fall within what SAAMI (Sporting Arms and Ammunition Manufacturers Institute) standards are, and even down to what a specific firearm can safely handle.

I'll even give you two examples of specific cartridges that the manuals provide several categories for to correspond to different firearms, the first being 45 Colt and the second being .45-70 Govt.

.45 Colt has two categories of load data, one that replicates the relatively mild standard factory load levels, and the second at much higher levels.
The first category of loads is safe in all .45 Colt guns in proper working order, including the weaker designs, notably the Colt Single Action Army.
The second category is reserved for only the stouter guns, specifically the Ruger Blackhawk, T/C Contender, Freedom Arms 83, Ruger Redhawk, and Colt Anaconda.

The .45-70 Govt. has three categories of loads, one that replicates the relatively mild factory load leve, an intermediate level with significantly greater power, and a third level that exploits the full potential of what the cartridge can withstand.
The first category is safe in all guns in proper working order so chambered, especially the weaker designs, namely the Springfield 1873 Trapdoor.
The second category is safe only in stronger guns, namely the Marlin 1895, Winchester 1886, Chinese Mauser, Winchester 1886, Ruger No. 1/No. 3, and Winchester 1885 High Wall.
The third category is reserved strictly for the strongest guns, namely the Chinese Mauser, Winchester 1885 High Wall, and Ruger No. 1/No. 3.

I go to all the trouble of mentioning those details because the manuals list exactly what primer to use for each load in each of those categories of loads.
In fact, my Lyman manuals list the pressure data for the starting loads and the maximum loads for the entire manual.
We all realize that you're new to reloading, but please do yourself a favor and stick with the manuals instead of playing phone tag with a powder company rep talking about such nebulous concepts as "pressure spikes" and "over-ignition."
The manual data was published with careful research, using specific components, and the publishers are in the business of making no mistakes.
You should trust the manuals and quit trying to contradict them.

 

[billybob44]

Well said oldpink...

^^^+1 to the "Old Timer"...

IMO, there are many things that affect SAFETY and accuracy in the handloading hobby.
Bullet selection/weight, powder brands/burn rates/charge amounts, and overall length of the loaded round come to mind.

YES, primer style/brand, can change the results (Especially Rifle Loads) of a loaded round, mainly on the accuracy standpoint, but unless you are loading a "Balls Out" load on your Magnum, you will find no problem using Magnum primers, as long as your mainsprings will 'Light them off'.

jstory, as you have indicated, since you are new at handloading, you especially NEED to stay with the published data that you choose to use...Bill.

 

[jstory]

I was only relaying information given from the manufacturer. I would assume they would know better than anyone. I would have figured that they would have the best information on that particular powder. I was never contradicting the information in the manual. I was told that it was wrong, Lyman 4th edition. Again, I am new to this and I have seen a few contradictions. Who is right...who is wrong???

Guys, I am learning too, I never tried to say anyone here was wrong. I just have a hard time understanding some of what I have seen, and been told. Seems to be some contradictory information. Makes it tough for a new guy...

 

[billybob44]

Just to ReCap....

I wanted to start reloading .357 mag. and need to know the proper primer to use. I'll be using Alliant 2400 powder behind a 158 gr. swc bullet. I currently have Remington 1 1/2 small pistol primers, will these work or do I need a different primer?
Thanks

We have established that the Remington 1 1/2 should NOT be used for ANY .357 Magnum loads.

I was only relaying information given from the manufacturer. I would assume they would know better than anyone. I would have figured that they would have the best information on that particular powder. I was never contradicting the information in the manual. I was told that it was wrong, Lyman 4th edition. Again, I am new to this and I have seen a few contradictions. Who is right...who is wrong???

Guys, I am learning too, I never tried to say anyone here was wrong. I just have a hard time understanding some of what I have seen, and been told. Seems to be some contradictory information. Makes it tough for a new guy...

We have re-hashed this till the "Cows have come Home"..
Bottom line is that some slow burning powders are probably NOT the best powders for the new handloader??..

A new suggestion may be to use a medium burn rate powder for your first .357 Mag. handlloads.

HP-38/WW-231, UNIQUE, AA-#5 and #7 MAY be the choice for the beginner in the handloading hobby.
These powders work well with most any cast load, and are good for most all plated+jacketed loads.
These will give the novice a "Feel" for reloading, and will run fine with Standard Small Pistol primers. These powders also will have no safety problems as long as the powder charge is in the middle of the data list. If Min. load is 5.0 grains, and Max. is 7.5 grains, start out at around 6.0 grains.

Anyone here on INGO, that has handloaded for awhile, will tell you that you need to make your own quality loads and test them in YOUR firearm, and go from there, always observing the safety considerations as you go. Heck, you may find a bullet-powder-primer combination not mentioned here that works GREAT in your firearm...Bill.

 

[kludge]

Personally I would not be using Lyman's 4th edition manual. I can't speak for 2400 specifically but several powders have changed manufacturers since that manual was published.

And on another note, I have no problem recommending 2400 for new reloaders.

 

[oldpink]

Yes, there might be reason to wonder about an older manual, as the Lyman fourth edition, so there's a simple solution that I just happen to have right here at my fingertips: Checking several current manuals.

Okay, according my Speer #11, all loads using a 158 grain softpoint or hollowpoint (jacketed) loaded with 2400 powder are all listed with CCI 550 small pistol magnum primers.
I'll even provide the exact data that Speer lists for that load:
Gun - Marlin 1894 (rifle)
Case - Speer
Bullet - Speer Softpoint or Speer Hollowpoint, 158 grains
Primer - CCI 550 (small pistol magnum)
Powder/Charge - 2400 => 13.9 grains starting charge & 15.9 grains maximum charge

Well, I bought my Speer #11 some time in 1989, so let's take a look at what the newest Speer manual (#14) has to say about the same load.
Interestingly enough, the much newer #14 edition of the Speer manual lists all of their loads in this category with CCI 500 small pistol standard primers.
I'll even provide the exact data that Speer lists for that load in their #14 manual:
Gun - Smith & Wesson model 19
Case - Speer
Bullet - Speer Gold Dot Hollowpoint, Totally Metal Jacketed, 158 grains
Primer - CCI 500 (small pistol standard)
Powder/Charge - 2400 => 13.8 grains starting charge & 14.8 grains maximum charge
It's worth noting that he maximum charge is 1.1 grain lower than the #11 manual's data, so that might explain the use of a standard primer for the newer edition.

By contrast, the Lyman Cast Bullet Handbook (latest edition) indicates CCI 550 for all of their data with 158 grain bullets and 2400 powder.
More importantly, the load that most closely matches your specific bullet (158 grain lead semi-wadcutter) Lyman lists with the CCI 550 small pistol magnum primer with their data.
I'll even provide the exact data that Lyman lists for that load in their latest Cast Bullet Handbook manual:
Gun - Universal receiver
Case - ???
Bullet - Lyman #358311 lead semi-wadcutter, 158 grains
Primer - CCI 550 (small pistol magnum)
Powder/Charge - 2400 => 11.4 grains starting charge & 15.5 grains maximum charge

It's also worth commenting that pressure levels shooting lead bullets vs. jacketed bullets are generally a bit lower, all else (powder charge, bullet weight, primer, case, seating depth, gun itself, etc.) being equal.
It's also very important not to just assume one primer is suitable for a certain powder in all cases.
Certain calibers have data with a given powder at a certain charge level using standard primers, while other charge levels and other calibers may call for magnum primers.
It's all in the load data for a specific cartridge, bullet, powder and charge, primer, and case.
That is the reason that I keep imploring you to stop talking to the powder manufacturer and trying to assume that one primer can do it all for all loads with 2400, or any other powder, for that matter.
If you want more current load data, buy a new manual.
If you need a wealth of current data (online listing of multiple manuals), there is www.loaddata.com, to which I recently subscribed.
Find valid load data from a valid source, and follow it.
That's how the rest of us as handloaders have been doing it for decades now, and even decades before many of us were even born.
Please stop second guessing yourself into a headache.

 

[jstory]

My 4th is actually the Lyman cast manual, sorry, I was not specific. But I digress, you have far more knowledge and years of reloading than I. I am not being a wise ass in any way. I called Alliant with a question and the rep brought it up, not I. Thanks for the information, and all the time you have spent with this thread. Honestly, I have learned from this myself. Thank you.

 

[oldpink]

You're welcome, and happy loading.
It's good to approach with caution, and shooting ammo that you assembled yourself is always more satisfying.