Never played with seating depth, but had a load that shot lights out one day, then the next time you loaded the same load it did not?

[Goodcat]

Never played with seating depth, but had a load that shot lights out one day, then the next time you loaded the same load it did not?

ITS BECAUSE an inconsistent bump of the case shoulder from your loading procedures adjusts your bullet seating depth, despite your base to o-give measurement being the same. Ur screwin up, bud.

There are a myriad of nuances in precision reloading. Primer crush, powder charge, brass prep, neck tension, concentricity, seating depth, neck clearance, etc…. The two most impactful are powder charge (finding a resonating point in the barrel harmonics where the tuning fork of a barrel is at it’s most absolute standstill, and additional powder evens off in velocity before increasing again), and bullet seating depth.

When adjusting bullet seating depth, most find “the lands”, which I could talk about for a day… and back off 20 thousandths. They measure base to o-give to get a start point. They then test 3 thou deeper for more jump per string, until they find two depths (6 thou) that are consistent. This is your seating depth node. You'll want to load on the longer end of your node to account for future throat erosion, so you won't have to adjust seating depth until it pulls out of the node.

BUT WAIT…. Bullet seating to the lands relationship is not just a base to o-give calculation. When the firing pin is struck, the case drives forward until the shoulder makes contact with your chamber, thereby pushing the bullet forward that same distance. SO, if your shoulder bump from fired chamber is not consistent, you will be adjusting your seating depth differently every time you reset your die. Even though you are seeing the same base to o-give measurement, the differing shoulder setback will change how deeply the bullet sits away from the lands before ignition, despite a consistent base to o-give measurement. Follow?

Do you neck size? Stop it, that’s stupid. Your shoulder continues to grow and change each firing, and changes your seating depth.

Do you full length size, but set your die by touching the shell holder and calling it good? Each time you do this, you are adjusting your bullet seating depth by the difference in how far it pushed the case shoulder back during resizing from it fire formed.

The only way to gain any meaningful data from bullet seating depth adjustment, is to consistently bump your shoulders the same amount. Typically, 2 thou is a good place to start. The only way to ignore bullet seating depth, but to maintain a consistent load, is to consistently bump your should the same amount each firing.

 

[Wabatuckian]

I disagree.

Your case can only grow as large as the chamber dimensions. Therefore, neck sizing and trimming is the perfect solution. This is especially true if you have a round that headspaces on the rim, like 7.62x54r or .303 Brit.

 

[Goodcat]

I disagree.

Your case can only grow as large as the chamber dimensions. Therefore, neck sizing and trimming is the perfect solution. This is especially true if you have a round that headspaces on the rim, like 7.62x54r or .303 Brit.

Shoulder bump is significantly more consistent, and you can switch a rimmed cartridge to headspace off the shoulder, been doing that with 300 win mag for years.

Virtually ever pro shooter in f-class, Benchrest, king of 2-miles, etc is full length sizing with shoulder bump, techniques have changed as we understand more and continue to push boundaries.

But you do you. Whatever works.

 

[Goodcat]

I disagree.

Your case can only grow as large as the chamber dimensions. Therefore, neck sizing and trimming is the perfect solution. This is especially true if you have a round that headspaces on the rim, like 7.62x54r or .303 Brit.

 

[Creedmoor]

Sig 226 in 9mm, beats any 1911 or glock ever made.

 

[Wabatuckian]

Sig 226 in 9mm, beats any 1911 or glock ever made.
View attachment 274058

Sig owners are often very confused about things.

 

[Creedmoor]

Sig owners are often very confused about things.

We really are confused why anyone would purchase any other handgun.

 

[Sigblitz]

Now it's an INGO thread.

 

[Wabatuckian]

We really are confused why anyone would purchase any other handgun.

I'm sure.

But more, Sig owners seem to lack reading comprehension.

For example, there was this one Sig fanboy I once talked to who felt compelled to spout off about the superiority of the Sig 226 in a thread in which I was discussing COAL and shoulder bump vs fire forming with another gentleman.

While the Sig is, indeed, a fine weapon, in that thread was neither the time nor place to debate its supposed superiority to the 1911.

I can only assume, then, that either this fanboy was overcome by love for his 226 and felt it necessary to spread it immediately then and there, or he, like other Sig owners, lacked the capacity to read the title or text; or, if he could read it, lacked the capacity to understand the context.

Further, he lacked the ability to pick up on subtle clues regarding the misplacement of his post.

I've never had this issue with 1911 fanboys. The 1911 is, after all, a thinking man's gun.

;-)

 

[Creedmoor]

Now it's an INGO thread.

9mm doesn't have to kill ones soul, with having ones lungs blown out, the soul leaves with ones last breath.

 

[Creedmoor]

I'm sure.

But more, Sig owners seem to lack reading comprehension.

For example, there was this one Sig fanboy I once talked to who felt compelled to spout off about the superiority of the Sig 226 I'm a thread in which I was discussing COAL and shoulder bump vs fire forming with another gentleman.

While the Sig is, indeed, a fine weapon, in that thread was neither the time nor place to debate its supposed superiority to the 1911.

I can only assume, then, that either this fanboy was overcome by love for his 226 and felt it necessary to spread it immediately then and there, or he, like other Sig owners, lacked the capacity to read the title or text; or, if he could read it, lacked the capacity to understand the context.

Further, he lacked the ability to pick up on subtle clues regarding the misplacement of his post.

I've never had this issue with 1911 fanboys. The 1911 is, after all, a thinking man's gun

;-)

I bet they are the thinking mans gun,
They are thinking,
Did I flip the safety off????

So, you must be new here.

 

[Wabatuckian]

I bet they are the thinking mans gun,
They are thinking,
Did I flip the safety off????

So, you must be new here.

In some ways, I guess.

 

[Wabatuckian]

Shoulder bump is significantly more consistent, and you can switch a rimmed cartridge to headspace off the shoulder, been doing that with 300 win mag for years.

Virtually ever pro shooter in f-class, Benchrest, king of 2-miles, etc is full length sizing with shoulder bump, techniques have changed as we understand more and continue to push boundaries.

But you do you. Whatever works.

I don't shoot comp.

So question: Aren't competition rifles' chambers on the tight side? And -- I might be misremembering here -- aren't the shooters' FL resizing dies custom matched to those chambers?

I shoot milsurp rifles with sloppy chambers and reload mostly with Lee dies.

I wonder if the difference in sizing tactics reflects the equipment used?

You better believe I'd fully resize if I wanted to cast my chamber and have a custom die made. For what I do, though -- MOA from a Mosin -- fire forming seems to work best.

I wonder, then, which tactic would be best for your average hunting rifle?

Could make an interesting experiment.

 

[Goodcat]

I don't shoot comp.

So question: Aren't competition rifles' chambers on the tight side? And -- I might be misremembering here -- aren't the shooters' FL resizing dies custom matched to those chambers?

I shoot milsurp rifles with sloppy chambers and reload mostly with Lee dies.

I wonder if the difference in sizing tactics reflects the equipment used?

You better believe I'd fully resize if I wanted to cast my chamber and have a custom die made. For what I do, though -- MOA from a Mosin -- fire forming seems to work best.

I wonder, then, which tactic would be best for your average hunting rifle?

Could make an interesting experiment.

Not all use tight chambers. I’ve found such minimal difference between turn and no-turn chambers, even my custom rifles are no turn necks. I’ve found identical results in anything from a Ruger Precision, to a Remington 700, to a custom 300. Redding, whidden, Hornady, Lee Sami spec dies. The biggest inconsistency I see in neck sizing, is that you size the neck for several firings until you can no longer chamber the round, then have to full length resize anyways. This can be especially burdensome in a hunting environment when your bolt doesn’t close. If by hunting, you are specially referring to the need for just 1 moa accuracy, absolutely either way works great.

This is really applicable to guns striving for occasional 1/16 minute groups, a lot of time 1/4 minute groups, and rarely over 1/2. Especially with low vertical dispersion being the goal for ranges 800-1800 yards. With shoulder bumping and annealing every firing, along with mandrel expansion, bushing neck sizing, and other techniques, my loads consistently run standard deviations of 8 or less over 25-30 rounds. Sounds like for your needs, neck sizing works just fine, and if so, no reason to change. This is really for long range precision, not a statement that “neck sizing can’t be used” for loading or anything.

 

[Goodcat]

I'm sure.

But more, Sig owners seem to lack reading comprehension.

For example, there was this one Sig fanboy I once talked to who felt compelled to spout off about the superiority of the Sig 226 in a thread in which I was discussing COAL and shoulder bump vs fire forming with another gentleman.

While the Sig is, indeed, a fine weapon, in that thread was neither the time nor place to debate its supposed superiority to the 1911.

I can only assume, then, that either this fanboy was overcome by love for his 226 and felt it necessary to spread it immediately then and there, or he, like other Sig owners, lacked the capacity to read the title or text; or, if he could read it, lacked the capacity to understand the context.

Further, he lacked the ability to pick up on subtle clues regarding the misplacement of his post.

I've never had this issue with 1911 fanboys. The 1911 is, after all, a thinking man's gun.

;-)

This we can agree upon!

 

[Paul 7.62]

Bolty guns I have are cut to my specs, with my reamer, and with a body die (again cut from my reamer) shoulder bump 0.001" to 0.001.5", bushing die and mandrel die for neck tension, yes annealed after every firing, primer pockets cut, primers are test measured and primers weighed, Necks are turned 0.011", primers are seated to .005" below case head. Biggest problem is buying enough bullets in one lot to last the barrel now days. Primers are another problem say a 6XC barrel lasts 2000 full power rounds, I want at least 3000 primers so I can fire form my brass and have enough to last the barrels life. I sort bullets so in a lot of 1000 I my find 700 really good ones or if I'm lucky one of the custom makers is having a sale on really good ones. Lots more on this once you really dive into the rabbit hole Alice. Sig at least it's better that those Staple Guns every one wants now days!

 

[Goodcat]

Bolty guns I have are cut to my specs, with my reamer, and with a body die (again cut from my reamer) shoulder bump 0.001" to 0.001.5", bushing die and mandrel die for neck tension, yes annealed after every firing, primer pockets cut, primers are test measured and primers weighed, Necks are turned 0.011", primers are seated to .005" below case head. Biggest problem is buying enough bullets in one lot to last the barrel now days. Primers are another problem say a 6XC barrel lasts 2000 full power rounds, I want at least 3000 primers so I can fire form my brass and have enough to last the barrels life. I sort bullets so in a lot of 1000 I my find 700 really good ones or if I'm lucky one of the custom makers is having a sale on really good ones. Lots more on this once you really dive into the rabbit hole Alice. Sig at least it's better that those Staple Guns every one wants now days!

I feel that. I got lucky on the 180 Berger hybrids in 7mm. Sold out for a year or more, and I snagged 3k in one drop. I was sorting base to o-give on bullets, and then having burners on either side. About to move to bullet pointing for slightly better BC after sorting OAL, but want to get a few matches in with my new rifle before adding another variable.

 

[Paul 7.62]

I feel that. I got lucky on the 180 Berger hybrids in 7mm. Sold out for a year or more, and I snagged 3k in one drop. I was sorting base to o-give on bullets, and then having burners on either side. About to move to bullet pointing for slightly better BC after sorting OAL, but want to get a few matches in with my new rifle before adding another variable.

I'm a P-Dog shooter but load like F-class. Bullet pointing I do when loading certain Sierra 6mm bullets. 3000 bullets works for 2 barrels which you should have to shoot F Class. I would look at buying a chamber reamer that you want to shoot 7PRCW, or 284 or it's wildcats. Barrel are the hard part as they are the longest waiting period now with waits of up to 2 years with some barrel makers. Last order I have made is one year with BRUX, and before that was all most 2 years with Bartlein but that was for a pair of left hand twist barrels with gain twist. https://accuracyone.com/ for more bullet pointing products and they have a new bullet measuring gauge you can use one handed. You do have to call tey for it as it is not on their web site yet.

 

[Goodcat]

I'm a P-Dog shooter but load like F-class. Bullet pointing I do when loading certain Sierra 6mm bullets. 3000 bullets works for 2 barrels which you should have to shoot F Class. I would look at buying a chamber reamer that you want to shoot 7PRCW, or 284 or it's wildcats. Barrel are the hard part as they are the longest waiting period now with waits of up to 2 years with some barrel makers. Last order I have made is one year with BRUX, and before that was all most 2 years with Bartlein but that was for a pair of left hand twist barrels with gain twist. https://accuracyone.com/ for more bullet pointing products and they have a new bullet measuring gauge you can use one handed. You do have to call tey for it as it is not on their web site yet.

Accuracy one is who I’m using. I have two Brux spun up in straight 284. Ive wanted to try out 7prcw next time, but no point in starting over until I’ve shot these up down the road.

 

[Paul 7.62]

Accuracy one is who I’m using. I have two Brux spun up in straight 284. Ive wanted to try out 7prcw next time, but no point in starting over until I’ve shot these up down the road.

I can understand going 7PRCW, 6.5 PRC Brass is around, and the harder to get .284 brass as they just started making it, (talking about Lapua) 3 good bullets from Berger. I like Brux but Bartline has that CNC barrel making machine that allows me to get left hand twist and grain twist barrels.