New reloader needing help with die selection

[cwagner1]

I'm going to start reloading .308 for my vepr, which is a .308 ak variant. This will be my first venture into reloading. I have read as much as I can find about what I should do, and I can talk in a fairly educated manner about reloading at this point. But I still have a few questions, and hopefully someone knows what I should be doing.

For this particular rifle, I have read that it chews up brass a good bit. Because of this, I'm figuring a full length sizing die is a must. Should I also invest in a neck specific sizing die such as a lee collet die? This would allow me to switch back and forth as needed, and if I get a bolt .308, it'll definitely be of use.

I am figuring that since it is a semi automatic and in a relatively big caliber, and not a bolt gun, I should be crimping? The redding 2 piece die set for .308 comes with a seating die that crimps and seats all at once. Would this suffice? And if I want, I should be able to back out the crimping feature so it seats without crimping so it would be good for use in a bolt gun where I don't want to crimp as well, correct? Or should I get a seating only die and a separate roll or taper crimp die (if so, should I go taper or roll)? If I go separate seat and taper, this would increase the amount of steps, and I'm using a single stage press, so this will add significant time.

So what I'm thinking of getting is the redding full length 2 piece die set and possibly add a lee collet die to make the set?

Or the lee 3 piece set, which has a collet, full size sizing, and seating die. I would need to get a crimp die in addition if I went this route as the seating die does jot crimp.

Or something else? There's so many options it's making my head hurt thinking about all of them.

 

[red_zr24x4]

I've never used the Redding dies.
For any auto loader you need to full length size. Small base dies are another story, some people say its a must for them. I load 30-06, 308, 223 all for "military" style arms. I've never used them.
I don't crimp any of my rifle loads, If I was loading for a tube fed rifle I'd consider it.

 

[kludge]

I'm figuring a full length sizing die is a must.

yes.

Should I also invest in a neck specific sizing die such as a lee collet die?

Not for this rifle.

if I get a bolt .308, it'll definitely be of use.

True. But keep your brass and ammo marked and separated.

I am figuring that since it is a semi automatic and in a relatively big caliber, and not a bolt gun, I should be crimping?

Maybe. Use cannelure bullets if you do.

The redding 2 piece die set for .308 comes with a seating die that crimps and seats all at once. Would this suffice?

Usually.

And if I want, I should be able to back out the crimping feature so it seats without crimping so it would be good for use in a bolt gun where I don't want to crimp as well, correct?

Correct.

Or should I get a seating only die and a separate roll or taper crimp die (if so, should I go taper or roll)? If I go separate seat and taper, this would increase the amount of steps, and I'm using a single stage press, so this will add significant time.

So what I'm thinking of getting is the redding full length 2 piece die set and possibly add a lee collet die to make the set?

Or the lee 3 piece set, which has a collet, full size sizing, and seating die. I would need to get a crimp die in addition if I went this route as the seating die does jot crimp.

If you have the coin, then get the 3-die Redding set. FL sizer, Neck sizer, and seating die. Or for less money the 4-die set from Lee (3-Die Pacesetter, and add the collet die later, or the 3-die Deluxe and add the FCD later). I have the Lee 3-die Pacesetter set, Factory Crimp Die, but no collet die... maybe someday.

The Lee seating die can in fact crimp, so to save more money you could get the Lee 2-die set. But you must be more religious in trimming your brass to get a consistent crimp using the seating die to crimp... the same goes for the Redding seating die also.

Or something else? There's so many options it's making my head hurt thinking about all of them.

Lee and Redding will always get my money.

 

[Broom_jm]

Kludge pretty much hit this one out of the park.

The only thing I will add is that every "seating die", from a 2-die set, will also include the ability to crimp. For rifle cartridges, this will almost always be a taper crimp.

For my money, Redding dies are only used for very precise, benchrest ammo. For anything semi-auto, Lee dies will be just fine. I'd get the Pacesetter set from Lee, giving you the option to seat/crimp in one operation or use the FCD, if that floats your boat.

 

[skimmer]

the hornady dies help center up the bullet as it's being seated got to love em

 

[Cerberus]

I would not take a chance on Hornady dies. Yes their seating dies is awesome, but I had one that would not size the brass down enough to even fit back into the chamber they were fired in, tried 3 different bolt rifles. I then read quite a few examples of this here and other places on the interwebz. I then tired both Lee and RCBS dies and they both worked like a charm.

 

[cwagner1]

This has been invaluable. I think I'm going to either do the redding 2 die full size set and a lee collet die, or the redding three die set.

Question is now, which is better: the redding neck size die or the lee collet die? I've read some really stellar reviews on the lee collet.

Thank you for all of the help guys! This has just been awesome.

 

[Yeah]

For versatility and minimizing variation, a Redding Type S FL bushing sizer gets the nod. RCBS' gold medal bushing dies are an all right alternate, when Reddings can't be sourced.

Both can size a case for reliable feeding in a semi in one stroke, and with a slight adjustment hit the neck and bump the shoulder to pseudo neck size for a bolt.

 

[Broom_jm]

Question is now, which is better: the redding neck size die or the lee collet die? I've read some really stellar reviews on the lee collet.

Thank you for all of the help guys! This has just been awesome.

The run-out gauge doesn't lie...and cases that have been neck-sized with a Lee collet die are so close to perfectly concentric, you just can't do much better. You can spend more, but round is ROUND, ya know?

 

[Wannabe Alchemist]

I am also gathering tools to begin reloading. Reading this thread causes me to add a question to the hundreds I already had. I intend reloading .45 LC to use in both pistol and lever action rifle. I figured on crimping because of the pistol. Is there any reason to NOT crimp for the rifle?

 

[cwagner1]

I am also gathering tools to begin reloading. Reading this thread causes me to add a question to the hundreds I already had. I intend reloading .45 LC to use in both pistol and lever action rifle. I figured on crimping because of the pistol. Is there any reason to NOT crimp for the rifle?

Because it's not a strait case like a pistol. It's different.

And because of the effect of the recoil on the round. A pistol can recoil in a way that can move the bullet in the case, where say a bolt action rifle wont have as much propensity for that.

You also get better accuracy from a non crimped round. So a lot of guys shooting bolt action/rifle competition won't crimp.

 

[Wannabe Alchemist]

Because it's not a strait case like a pistol. It's different.

And because of the effect of the recoil on the round. A pistol can recoil in a way that can move the bullet in the case, where say a bolt action rifle wont have as much propensity for that.

You also get better accuracy from a non crimped round. So a lot of guys shooting bolt action/rifle competition won't crimp.

The pistol is a revolver, the rifle lever action, the brass (.45LC) straight. I'm thinking this may be an odd combination causing a switch of the norm? That being that the ammo in the rifle is in a tube needing crimped, the revolver NOT in a clip, so not needing crimped?
Aside from the accuracy issue.

 

[mac45]

I am also gathering tools to begin reloading. Reading this thread causes me to add a question to the hundreds I already had. I intend reloading .45 LC to use in both pistol and lever action rifle. I figured on crimping because of the pistol. Is there any reason to NOT crimp for the rifle?

You should crimp anything going in a tube magazine to avoid bullet set back.
I give all my .45 Colt a moderate roll crimp. Just enough so I can't feel the lip of the case with a fingernail. Should be more than enough unless you're playing with Ruger only loads.

 

[mac45]

The pistol is a revolver, the rifle lever action, the brass (.45LC) straight. I'm thinking this may be an odd combination causing a switch of the norm? That being that the ammo in the rifle is in a tube needing crimped, the revolver NOT in a clip, so not needing crimped?
Aside from the accuracy issue.

Actually, you can get bullet jump in a revolver. Especially with hotter loads.
Crimp 'em.

 

[Wannabe Alchemist]

Thank you Mac...I was hoping for that answer. That is...I was hoping ammo for both the revolver and the rifle could be the same, other than maybe some special purpose loads.

 

[Broom_jm]

If there was a way to DE Rep someone, CWagner1 would get my vote, based on his reply at the top of this page. He gave at least three bad pieces of advice, in one very short response to your questions. I'm glad you ignored the comments he made because pretty much everything he said is either DEAD wrong, or highly debatable.

For example, there are many loads where a good, solid crimp is vital to accuracy, because it's the only way to ensure consistent powder burn. An example of this would be just about any rounds loaded with H110/W296. Also, it has long been known that rifle loads, going into a lever-action, should be crimped to keep the bullets from moving around. You mentioned you were shooting 45 Colt rounds from a lever-action, yet he brings up bolt-action rifles in his response. Raise your hand if you've ever seen a bolt-action 45 Colt?

The Internet can be a great way to disseminate information; I just wish guys would take the time to know what the HECK they're talking about before they go spouting off.

 

[cwagner1]

Maybe you should re-read what I wrote. Nothing I said was wrong.

Again:
Crimp handgun loads for fear of bullet setback
Don't need to crimp for bolt action

Obviously there are exceptions to that, and you should do your research on your specific round you are making.

But yes, to add, crimp tube fed rounds. Or you will risk bullet setback. Maybe that wasn't clear in my post, but I never mentioned tube fed rifles in my post.

Also, I wish I could neg your post as well. Hopefully a mod will delete yours as it's completely off of MY original topic.

If there was a way to DE Rep someone, CWagner1 would get my vote, based on his reply at the top of this page. He gave at least three bad pieces of advice, in one very short response to your questions. I'm glad you ignored the comments he made because pretty much everything he said is either DEAD wrong, or highly debatable.

For example, there are many loads where a good, solid crimp is vital to accuracy, because it's the only way to ensure consistent powder burn. An example of this would be just about any rounds loaded with H110/W296. Also, it has long been known that rifle loads, going into a lever-action, should be crimped to keep the bullets from moving around. You mentioned you were shooting 45 Colt rounds from a lever-action, yet he brings up bolt-action rifles in his response. Raise your hand if you've ever seen a bolt-action 45 Colt?

The Internet can be a great way to disseminate information; I just wish guys would take the time to know what the HECK they're talking about before they go spouting off.