New Springfield Hellions in 18" and 20"

[BackFromDC]

I usually don't get excited for bullpups, but a 20 incher seems pretty interesting. Anyone else planning on acquiring the new models when they drop?

 

[Dog1]

I was interested in the Hellion until I handled and shot one. It's ergonomically weird compared to other bullpups. I think if I was going to get a Bullpup it would probably be maybe a Kel-Tec or a Tavor.

Nice to have options though

 

[two70]

I tend to like bullpups but the Hellion just doesn't hold my interest for some reason. Maybe if they were to come out with a version 2.0 with a better trigger, a less ridiculous bolt release and without the adjustable stock I'd take a second look at one.

 

[Dog1]

That was one of the things that I did not like about it was the adjustable stock I don't think you really need that on a Bullpup. It's unnecessary

 

[NyleRN]

And sticking a 20" barrel on it is dumb. You're negating some the rifle's maneuverability in CQB spaces which is the philosophy of use of the rifle to begin with

 

[Dog1]

And sticking a 20" barrel on it is dumb. You're negating some the rifle's maneuverability in CQB spaces which is the philosophy of use of the rifle to begin with

Yup... that kind of negates the whole idea of a handy Bullpup when you start sticking longer barrels on

 

[NyleRN]

Yup... that kind of negates the whole idea of a handy Bullpup when you start sticking longer barrels on

Exactly. This little guy rode shotgun with me the whole way to Gulf Shores yesterday. Nice overall compactness, shoots like a rifle with the 16" barrel but gives me the ability to get in and out of the vehicle without being too cumbersome. Don't plan on having to engage targets at 500-600yrds so this fits the philosophy of use nicely

 

[BackFromDC]

And sticking a 20" barrel on it is dumb. You're negating some the rifle's maneuverability in CQB spaces which is the philosophy of use of the rifle to begin with

I've only really started looking at full length 20" recently, mostly because of a velocity component and also seems to suppress better. The bullpup part is also more of a novelty, I've never known of a bullpup that was designed for more than 16".

 

[Ark]

I was interested in the Hellion until I handled and shot one. It's ergonomically weird compared to other bullpups. I think if I was going to get a Bullpup it would probably be maybe a Kel-Tec or a Tavor.

Nice to have options though

I have a RDB. Trigger and ergos are pretty great, except it's possible to bump the mag release.

20" gets pretty long on a bullpup if you still want a suppressor.

 

[BackFromDC]

I have a RDB. Trigger and ergos are pretty great, except it's possible to bump the mag release.

20" gets pretty long on a bullpup if you still want a suppressor.

I looked at an RDB while at Indy NRAAMM and it just seemed so much more complicated than a Tavor x95. I didn't mind my old x95, but someone wanted to pay me sticker price during the pandemic...apparently everyone ran out of them in 2020.

 

[IUKalash429]

I have a Hellion and an AUG. Actually far prefer the former even though I was more excited to buy the latter. The 20" barrels are a popular upgrade for AUG fanboys, but at $550 it's a spicy add-on. From an accuracy and suppressive standpoint a longer Hellion might also be a lot of fun.

 

[Ark]

I looked at an RDB while at Indy NRAAMM and it just seemed so much more complicated than a Tavor x95. I didn't mind my old x95, but someone wanted to pay me sticker price during the pandemic...apparently everyone ran out of them in 2020.

I paid somewhere around $900 last Thanksgiving. Definitely the cheapest bullpup on the market.

They are somewhat complicated and use a lot of weird engineering you don't see on any other guns. No other gun I'm aware of extracts a spent case, drags it backwards all the way across the top of the magazine, and then dumps it down a chute behind the mag. I don't know of another gun with a bolt travel that long, and you feel it in the recoil impulse. It's also very difficult to directly observe the condition of the chamber, although you can see the piston head from the outside of the gun and infer the position of the bolt (in battery, locked back, or jammed) from the piston head's position. The way the "upper reciever" comes apart into two pieces is kinda whack, it's not a fast gun to service.

Coolest thing is it has this huge hammer assembly that is pulled forward by two springs, that yokes around the magazine well and is caught held by the sear all the way up at the trigger. No long linkage and sear pack at the rear of the gun, the break happens right there at your finger (with a massive WHANG when that big hammer falls). Great trigger for a bullpup.

 

[Dog1]

I have a RDB. Trigger and ergos are pretty great, except it's possible to bump the mag release.

20" gets pretty long on a bullpup if you still want a suppressor.

I wouldn't be opposed to an RDB.. I had an RFB and had high hopes for it to be suppressed but unfortunately it just would not run with a can on it no matter how hard I tried. The gas system was just not adjustable enough to make it run. Unsurpressed it ran great and the great thing about it was it took FAL magazines which I have plenty of. But unfortunately it was no bueno. And I had to let it go. If I could find an RDB at a decent price I would pick it up.

 

[Tombs]

And sticking a 20" barrel on it is dumb. You're negating some the rifle's maneuverability in CQB spaces which is the philosophy of use of the rifle to begin with

If you're looking at a bullpup to get a compact firearm, I'd argue that you're doing it wrong. Better served at that point with an SBR.

The benefit is in the ballistic advantage of that much extra barrel you aren't paying for with an unwieldy rifle. It's also in the balance, and the ability to fire it from a single hand. You can keep a bullpup shouldered looking down the sights all day without getting fatigued.

 

[NyleRN]

If you're looking at a bullpup to get a compact firearm, I'd argue that you're doing it wrong. Better served at that point with an SBR.

The benefit is in the ballistic advantage of that much extra barrel you aren't paying for with an unwieldy rifle. It's also in the balance, and the ability to fire it from a single hand. You can keep a bullpup shouldered looking down the sights all day without getting fatigued.

You'll never get the ballistics from an SBR that you'll get from a bullpup and keep the same OAL. Now, we can argue whether or not the difference in ballistics from different barrel lengths actually matter when it comes to CQB distances. I'd argue it's a wash. I personally don't think I'd have any better chance of surviving an A zone hit from a 16" bullpup at 25yds and in with M855 versus a 11.5" SBR using the same load at the same distance. With the 16" barreled bullpup I'm bypassing the $200 freedom tax. And I don't need a form 5320 to take my bullpup across state lines

 

[Tombs]

You'll never get the ballistics from an SBR that you'll get from a bullpup and keep the same OAL. Now, we can argue whether or not the difference in ballistics from different barrel lengths actually matter when it comes to CQB distances. I'd argue it's a wash. I personally don't think I'd have any better chance of surviving an A zone hit from a 16" bullpup at 25yds and in with M855 versus a 11.5" SBR using the same load at the same distance. With the 16" barreled bullpup I'm bypassing the $200 freedom tax. And I don't need a form 5320 to take my bullpup across state lines

Yeah at 25 yards it isn't a big deal which is why I said you're better served with an SBR. The big deal is that you're more than doubling the effective range over that 11.5" SBR.

 

[NyleRN]

Yeah at 25 yards it isn't a big deal which is why I said you're better served with an SBR. The big deal is that you're more than doubling the effective range over that 11.5" SBR.

You say you're better served with an SBR but how? I'd like to hear your reasoning why

 

[Tombs]

You say you're better served with an SBR but how? I'd like to hear your reasoning why

Lighter and better ergonomics for shooting from less than ideal situations.

I can say from experience that my tavor limits me on shooting from some positions as easily as a normal AR15.

Probably not things that would be a deal breaker in military service, but I can see that being a major holdup with LEO or any other group that is only really doing CQB.