New Vortex optic -- Razor Red Dot (reflex-style)

[Destro]

Sorry but my Trijicon RMR Dual was only 420 and doesn't need a battery. Street price on this would need to be low 3xx range to even think about pulling me away from an RMR.

The RMR is also USA made

 

[Oldbird13]

My experience with birding optics from all the top vendors is that Vortex seems to price below and offers a great warranty. Very competitive in the world of optics and Vortex is relatively young so they about have to price below others Swarovski,Leica, Nikon, Zeiss to get in front of the audience. I introduced a close friend to a pair of Vortex binoculars and he was very pleased overall and he got them at a great price.

 

[42769vette]

My experience with birding optics from all the top vendors is that Vortex seems to price below and offers a great warranty. Very competitive in the world of optics and Vortex is relatively young so they about have to price below others Swarovski,Leica, Nikon, Zeiss to get in front of the audience. I introduced a close friend to a pair of Vortex binoculars and he was very pleased overall and he got them at a great price.

i have quite a few customers in the bird watching community.

 

[42769vette]

i got it mounted on my glock 17L today. if very far from a pistol expert but that sight made me much better with a pistol as soon as i sighted it in. i got the 6moa versions since i wont be doing any long range shooting with a pistol. teh dot picks up very fast, and is very bright. on average from 15yds i put 1/2 of my shots on a dueling tree plate. today i rang it 17 times in a row pretty quickly wich is unheard of for me.

on a torso target i tested the parallux and there is none. i could not tell wich rounds were wich on the target nomatter where i had my head.

the one thing i did not test was weather 1 click is actually 1 moa. i figured it reallyl didnt matter on this sight. at 15yds 1moa is .15inchs so there no way im good enough with a pistol to test that.

it comes with mounts for a pic rail, you have to buy specific pistol mounts seperatly.

another thing im liking about the sight is it has over 1 year of battery life on max power so i dont have to turn it on and off. i turned it on today and it will be on until its time to replace the battery.

overall the sight is great, im kind of set back by how bad i was before, i defintallly need to dedicate more time to shooting a pistol.

 

[42769vette]

 

[esrice]

Well lookie what the FedEx man brought me today!

A box full of T&E goodies, direct from Alan at A&A Optics.

I can't wait to get out on the range and check these out!

 

[42769vette]

Well lookie what the FedEx man brought me today!

A box full of T&E goodies, direct from Alan at A&A Optics.

I can't wait to get out on the range and check these out!

i look forward to your thoughts. i do quite a few optic reviews. if i like the optic i stock it if i dont like it i wont stock it. i think this makes my reviews "taken with a grain of salt" because i also sell the product. i think a outside on strings attached review will be worth more than mine.

on a side note the razor red dot is avaible for purchase right now. the sparc has been around for awhile but another opinon cant hurt

 

[cedartop]

i look forward to your thoughts. i do quite a few optic reviews. if i like the optic i stock it if i dont like it i wont stock it. i think this makes my reviews "taken with a grain of salt" because i also sell the product. i think a outside on strings attached review will be worth more than mine.

on a side note the razor red dot is avaible for purchase right now. the sparc has been around for awhile but another opinon cant hurt

Alan, if you don't mind my opinion. I realize this is just for checking things out, but you will be much more satisfied milling the slide and mounting the rds that way. It is more rugged, with the right sights you have cowitnessing, and of course it looks better. I am not sure if using the adapter plate allows it to return to zero or not. Last weeke, I had to replace the battery in my RMR, and when I put it back on zero was held. Don't overlook the importance of having BUIS. Two good reasons, if the rds goes down, and they can act as training wheels. Some people find that at first they are really chasing the dot. With the BUIS you just punch it out there like normal loking at the fron sight, and the dot appears.

 

[42769vette]

Alan, if you don't mind my opinion. I realize this is just for checking things out, but you will be much more satisfied milling the slide and mounting the rds that way. It is more rugged, with the right sights you have cowitnessing, and of course it looks better. I am not sure if using the adapter plate allows it to return to zero or not. Last weeke, I had to replace the battery in my RMR, and when I put it back on zero was held. Don't overlook the importance of having BUIS. Two good reasons, if the rds goes down, and they can act as training wheels. Some people find that at first they are really chasing the dot. With the BUIS you just punch it out there like normal loking at the fron sight, and the dot appears.

i appriciate anyones opinion, and i agree with you 100%. the whole point of my getting a glock 17l is im horribable with a pistol. im in the top 10 worst pistol shots in the world. i bought a mk3 and the glock about the same time because imo the reason im not very good is 99.9% of my pratice is geared towards rifle.

so i needed somthing to play with the the razor to evaluate it and the glock is what i had avaible, it is not a perminate fixture on that gun because honestly the rds makes it to easy. i hit 17 out of 17 on a dueling tree from 10ish yds pulling the trigger pretty fast. usually im hitting 9ish at that range on that target.

i guess the point of my long story is the rds defintally helps my accuracy and speed, but it doesnt help my ultimate goal of learning to shoot a pistol with irons if that makes sense.

one day i will either get another glockish pistol to pratice with and do just what your describing to the 17l, or do what your describing to the new pistol.

 

[cedartop]

Alan, I totally understand what you are saying, but if you haven't seen this article, I submit it for your perusal. In your case substitute Razor for RMR.

An RMR Will Make You a Better Shooter

by Chris Upchurch, Suarez International Staff Instructor



If you read the Warriortalk News blog or hang out on the forum, you’ve probably already heard about the truly fantastic shooting performance that a SI TSD pistol with a Trijicon RMR red dot sight mounted on the slide makes possible. Hits out to 200 or 300 yards are doable. Hitting a torso sized target at 100 is almost easy, as are headshots at 25 yards. At seven yards, you’re choosing which eye socket you want the round to go through. I don’t think anyone would be surprised if I said that you’ll shoot better with an RMR than an iron sighted gun. That’s not quite what I’m saying here, however. What I’m saying is that if you take the time to master a TSD pistol with an RMR, it will make you a better shooter even with an iron sighted pistol.

I was led to this conclusion by two recent experiences with TSD pistols:

I have always used the stock 5.5 pound Glock trigger. This was not based on some fear of liability or any of the other reasons for sticking with the stock trigger weight that are floating around out there, I simply never felt that the trigger weight inhibited my accuracy. That changed when I shot my TSD G17, particularly at longer ranges. As I concentrated intently on pressing the trigger smoothly to the rear, the trigger weight would stack up and the dot started wavering from side to side. I was still able to hit at a hundred yards, but it was obvious that the trigger weight, particularly right before the break, was having an effect on my accuracy. I’ve since installed the Lone Wolf 3.5 pound connector and there’s definitely a noticeable improvement.

The second incident that led me to this conclusion came when fellow S.I. instructor Alex Nieuwland and I were shooting our TSD Glocks the other day. Alex tested his carry load, shooting about a handspan sized group at 50 yards. When he switched to Winchester White Box practice ammo, however, he had trouble keeping it on the 3’x4’ target. We went through several different brands of practice ammo (Winchester, Federal, Magtech, American Eagle, and Wolf) and found enormous variation in accuracy at this distance.

What do trigger pull and testing different practice loads have in common? In both cases the RMR exposed existing issues with the gun and ammunition that we hadn’t been aware of when shooting with iron sights. Putting the RMR on didn’t make my trigger pull or Alex’s practice ammo worse, it just laid bare their deficiencies. It will do the same thing to your shooting skills.

Maintaining a proper sight alignment is one of the most difficult elements of sighted fire with a pistol. It is difficult to teach, and difficult to perform in practice. When shooting at long ranges (or very small targets) even small variations can lead to large effects. One millimeter of front sight misalignment will result in being off over half a meter at 100 meters. The RMR eliminates this. There is no need to align front and rear sights with the target, just put the dot on it. Eliminating sight alignment as a source of error not only makes your shooting more accurate, it also means that other sources of error are much more obvious. With iron sights an unsteady hold, improper trigger press, flinch, inaccurate ammo, or a heavy trigger may be masked by variations in sight alignment. With a red dot, these effects are obvious, both on the target, and in many cases in the visible movement of the dot as the shot breaks.

The other way that mastering an RMR will make you a better shooter is by pushing you to practice shots that you might not even have attempted with iron sights. Before I got my TSD Glock, I seldom shot beyond seven yards, and almost never beyond 25. Once I shot my pistol at 100 yards on a lark, but I wasn’t really serious about it. Knowing what a TSD gun is capable of has pushed me to put considerably more effort into my long range skills, and in making very accurate hits at closer ranges (eye sockets on photo targets in particular). Shooting at longer ranges will make even small accuracy problems evident. A flinch that throws a bullet a few inches low at seven yards might take it completely off the target at 100. Longer range shooting really demands complete concentration and close to perfect technique.

If you put in the time and practice to truly master an RMRed pistol you will eliminate a lot of small errors that were either obscured by sight alignment or invisible at shorter ranges. When you shoot a pistol with only iron sights, you will have to deal with the traditional issues of sight alignment. However, you will retain the improvements you learned with the RMR. Your overall shooting skills will have made a giant step forward. A TSD gun with an RMR won’t just make you shoot better with that gun, it will make you a better shooter with any pistol.

 

[42769vette]

good read cedar, glock at 300yds, now your speaking my language.

 

[esrice]

Thanks for posting Mike.

I'm really getting geeked up to try this "red dotted" pistol out. I have a feeling the red dot will do for a pistol what it does for carbines. If the effect is the same then I think I'm in trouble.

 

[42769vette]

Thanks for posting Mike.

I'm really getting geeked up to try this "red dotted" pistol out. I have a feeling the red dot will do for a pistol what it does for carbines. If the effect is the same then I think I'm in trouble.

i knew there was a reason i sent you some toys to "test"

 

[esrice]

i knew there was a reason i sent you some toys to "test"

Yeah I could very well end up hating you by the end of this.

 

[HamsterStyle]

I want to see some steel rung at 211 yards with a glock.

 

[esrice]

I want to see some steel rung at 211 yards with a glock.

Challenge accepted.

 

[42769vette]

Challenge accepted.

drop should be roughly 70 inches at 300 yds, sight in at 15ish yds and dial up 23 clicks or just hold high

 

[shooter521]

Well lookie what the FedEx man brought me today!

A box full of T&E goodies, direct from Alan at A&A Optics.

Ohh, sex.

Who's got two thumbs and a full-size Glock frame and would be willing to help with the T&E? THIS GUY.

 

[HamsterStyle]

Challenge accepted.

 

[cedartop]

I want to see some steel rung at 211 yards with a glock.

Doable, but it definitely gets harder after 100. At the end of Red Dot Pistol School in AZ, we had everyone hitting man size steel at 100. Some of us were hitting the smaller steel (66% IPSC) at 100. Some of my fellow instructors were hitting the gong at 220. Though the dot makes it easier, its still all about trigger control.