Newtown Calls for Armed School Officers

[Hdfb03]

If we're going to have people armed in school. I want them to be highly trained pros. Not just any old CCW holder who may or may not keep their cool when the firefight starts.

I know teachers that said they would like this, if they were offered good training. I dont see why this would be a bad idea at all.

 

[ZombieApocolypse]

Don't go to a mall then... one of us "any old CCW" holders might just be there.

And thanks for the insult.



Just curious - do you carry? If so, why? After all, you might not keep your cool when the firefight starts...

Edit: May I suggest that when you are looking for "pro's " for your children's school - you might want to contact the highly trained professionals at the NYPD.... just sayin'

Just because someone has their LTCH doesnt mean they will respond to a threat. Ive read more than a story where people were gunned down and someone with a permit and weapon nearby did nothing to stop the atrocity. In an atmosphere such as a school, i would also want someone trained to handle the situation to be the person there. NOT just somebody who took an online test and has never fired his/her weapon

 

[thatgtrguy]

Don't go to a mall then... one of us "any old CCW" holders might just be there.

And thanks for the insult.



Just curious - do you carry? If so, why? After all, you might not keep your cool when the firefight starts...

Edit: May I suggest that when you are looking for "pro's " for your children's school - you might want to contact the highly trained professionals at the NYPD.... just sayin'

I don't carry. I haven't received my Indiana LTCH yet (applied for right before Christmas).

I did rapid deployment out of Ft. Bragg 1993-1997: 2nd Gulf War, Somalia, Hatian Refugee crisis. I know exactly what my capacity is in a fight.

If you were insulted, that wasn't my intent. But there is a difference between going to the range with eye protection, ear protection, and very strict rules of behavior. And training to engage the enemy.

As posted earlier, most teachers are females. Evolution has implanted in them a motherly instinct. Their instinct is going to be to keep harm away from the kids; not engage the enemy. Get the kids down, away from the door. Become a human shield. That's where instinct will take them. I have no issue with Concealed carry in the school. I don't however think a gun in the holster is the same as trained rapid response converging on an active shooter.

 

[hps]

If we're going to have people armed in school. I want them to be highly trained pros. Not just any old CCW holder who may or may not keep their cool when the firefight starts.

When SHTF (and I'm not there)I'd put my trust in a teacher with a gun to protect my kids.

 

[thatgtrguy]

When SHTF (and I'm not there)I'd put my trust in a teacher with a gun to protect my kids.

An armed teacher is better than nothing. No argument.

A trained operator. Or a team of trained operators is better.

If it's a matter of taxes; I'll pay more to keep my kid safer.

 

[thatgtrguy]

Don't go to a mall then... one of us "any old CCW" holders might just be there.

And thanks for the insult.



Just curious - do you carry? If so, why? After all, you might not keep your cool when the firefight starts...

Edit: May I suggest that when you are looking for "pro's " for your children's school - you might want to contact the highly trained professionals at the NYPD.... just sayin'

BTW, I didn't mean to insult you personally.

There's some guy on INGO that attacks me every chance he gets. I've lost count of how many times he's called me "obtuse".

 

[Osobuco]

While I agree that armed officers in schools is a great idea, paying for them is something that people should understand. Whether it's hiring returning veterans (as many have suggested), security contractors, or additional police officers, there is a price tag attached...salaries, benefits, uniforms & equipment, training, liability insurance, statutory enforcement authority, etc. are all a part of the big picture. If the taxpayers within that school district or municipality have a full understanding of the costs involved, that's great. The real debate will erupt when the city presents its case to the public for additional tax revenues to cover the resulting costs.

How much do you think it would cost the district per officer? If it is $100K to cover all the stuff you mention that would affect taxes so little that most people would not even notice it. I would assume they would need 1 cop for smaller schools and a handful for larger ones. Just their presence would be a major deterrent. I dunno but it is sure worth looking in to.

 

[Osobuco]

As posted earlier, most teachers are females. Evolution has implanted in them a motherly instinct. Their instinct is going to be to keep harm away from the kids; not engage the enemy. Get the kids down, away from the door. Become a human shield. That's where instinct will take them. I have no issue with Concealed carry in the school. I don't however think a gun in the holster is the same as trained rapid response converging on an active shooter.

Yikes! I'm sure glad I didn't write that. I know plenty of women who are way cooler and more level headed than men under stressful situations and are fully willing to engage an assailant if face with it.

 

[miguel]

Fair enough, I guess - but there are two prevailing myths that we need to get rid of:
1) The average LTCH holder would go crazy and hose down the the entire building with gunfire
2) You need police to handle them dangerous guns dontcha know.

Both are pure iguana droppings.... and very dangerous MYTHS. THAT was my problem with what GTR said.

If you don't trust me with a concealed pistol on a school campus - why the hell would you trust me in a mall or other crowded public place?

I agree that the education industry leans heavily against such folks - that said - I learned something when my High School aged daughter had a problem with a stalker. A number of teachers (both male and female) rose to the occasion and went above and beyond the call of duty. This prevented a massive issue and I will be forever grateful to them. In every school there are such folks. And if armed, they would rise to the occasion in the event of the unthinkable happening. Maybe my experience there gives me a bit more confidence that such folks exist in every school. May not be the majority. But they exist.

This x 7.

 

[ArmedProgrammer]

BTW, I didn't mean to insult you personally.

There's some guy on INGO that attacks me every chance he gets. I've lost count of how many times he's called me "obtuse".

Before I start, a) we probably agree more than we disagree. b) there's a few things you said though, that I took strong exception to. You seem like a reasonable person - so here goes:

No offense taken - I was trying to point out that you were insinuating that 75% of INGO (we're just "ordinary LTCH holders" not "operators" and we didn't even sleep at a Holiday Inn last night... ) were incompetent and would freak out and do the wrong thing or NOT do the right thing. That's a MYTH that I'm not prepared to accept.

I respect your credentials and will take it at face value that you know what you are talking about. The statistics, however, show that "ordinary LTCH holders" tend to do the RIGHT thing under pressure. Consider the case of the fellow in the Oregon Mall. He DIDN'T fire, and yet his presence affected the outcome. There's NOT a lot of stories of LTCH holders going crazy and hosing the place down.

An armed teacher is better than nothing. No argument.

A trained operator. Or a team of trained operators is better.

If it's a matter of taxes; I'll pay more to keep my kid safer.

If we need a team of "trained operators" in every school, then a) it's gonna get danged expensive and b) we are running prisons, not schools. In that scenario - the heck with it, I'm gonna homeschool my kids the rest of the way.

Let's step back and look at this:

There's a whole spectrum of response that we can consider:

1) Disarm law abiding citizens (ridiculous)
2) allow all school employees to carry the same as every other citizen (take down the Gun Free Zone BS)
3) do the above, plus give them training out the wazoo. This has been offered for FREE here in Indiana and elsewhere.

4) Put three or four cops in every school... This is good but what do they do while they are there? You can only practice so much...

5) Put a stormtrooper behind every door with full battle gear. (ok - I'm being a little facetious - but after all we can't pay too much for our kid's safety, right? IT'S FOR THE CHILDREN!)

I think we can all agree that #1 is BS and should be thrown out. That's just intellectual masturbation and won't accomplish anything.

#2 and #3 can be had for FREE. The offers are on the table.
Side note - I would disagree that most teachers are necessarily women - In elementary grades, it IS true. The older the students get, the less true it is... High Schools typically are 50/50 or even leaning towards men. And also, I would not be so quick to discount the women shooters around here...

JetGirl, 88GT, and Rayne will be around with a few of their friends to kick our collective butts shortly.... (evil grin)

#4 is possible to a point. If we're going to go there, I'd rather that they hired people to do combination jobs - say coach or janitor or admin or teacher of some kind PLUS security. My reasoning is that you might as well be doing something USEFUL with your time. Also, engaging and mixing with the kids will keep you much more aware of potential problems. You've got all of the vacation time for training for crying out loud. I also prefer COVERT security to OVERT security. Don't telegraph who it is that needs to get taken out first!

#5 is the egregious "prison guard" scenario. I think we can all agree that this would be over the top. Unless this is what you are suggesting???

Thanks for being cool about things and engaging in the discussion - as I said, we likely agree more than we disagree.

 

[RockofStrength]

An armed teacher is better than nothing. No argument.

A trained operator. Or a team of trained operators is better.

If it's a matter of taxes; I'll pay more to keep my kid safer.

Then hire a team of operators and send them to your kids school. Except that you can't afford them, so you'll force homeschoolers, private schoolers, and people without children who are perfectly safe and well protected to pay yet more to protect other kids whose parents willingly put them in harms way.

 

[IndyDave1776]

BTW, I didn't mean to insult you personally.

There's some guy on INGO that attacks me every chance he gets. I've lost count of how many times he's called me "obtuse".

Allow me to offer some advice. Don't say something stupid and expect not to get called out on it. Saying that the Second Amendment protects Fudd guns and non-firearm weapons but not 'military' style weapons begs for a negative response. Suggesting that a constitutional right is not applicable because it does not have a use in the 'modern age' to your satisfaction likewise invites a negative response.

I also have reviewed and found that you were in fact referred to as being obtuse (if you check your grammar, phrased to indicate reference to your specific words of the moment as opposed to an ongoing condition) in exactly one post in a passing reference. In a second post, a general class of people were referred to as being obtuse and you chose to place yourself in that class of people defined as those who do not understand that principle is always valid and is not dependent on the condition of a certain time period. Please don't tell me that you lost count at 2.

In one case, you were accused of being/acting obtuse at the time, as opposed to a permanent attribute. In the other, you chose to accept ownership of a general statement. You still managed to lose count.

 

[ArmedProgrammer]

Just because someone has their LTCH doesnt mean they will respond to a threat. Ive read more than a story where people were gunned down and someone with a permit and weapon nearby did nothing to stop the atrocity. In an atmosphere such as a school, i would also want someone trained to handle the situation to be the person there. NOT just somebody who took an online test and has never fired his/her weapon

I don't disagree - (see my response to GTR above). There's already a TON of free training that is ON THE TABLE and offered. I will go way out on a limb and suggest that Guy Relford (may [insert Deity of choice] bless him) offered WAY more than "an online test and never firing his/her weapon"

 

[-Rogue-]

Well...

... a predominantly female/liberal teacher standing in the doorway with her handgun willing to take bullets for the kids she stuffed into closets beats standing there without one waiting and hoping some "highly trained" person gets there in time...

... maybe we can even convince her (and the parents of the kids behind her) that at a time like that, bravely pulling the trigger for her kids is preferable to just bravely standing there taking bullets.

Rather poetically emphasizes a great point.

 

[24Carat]

The Newtown Board of Education wants more armed police officers in the towns four elementary schools after the shooting at Sandy Hook Elementary last month.


Newtown Calls for Armed School Officers | NBC Connecticut

This is what happens when common sense floats to the surface of the emotional quagmire.

 

[Legba]

We have plenty of money to fund armed guards in schools.

2010 TOP 25 FOREIGN AID COUNTRIES

Afghanistan = 11.4 BILLION

Pakistan = 2.8 BILLION

Israel = 2.8 BILLION

Iraq = 2 BILLION

Egypt = 1.6 BILLION

Haiti = 1.4 BILLION

Ethiopia = 981 MILLION

Sudan = 975 MILLION

Colombia = 863 MILLION

Kenya = 818 MILLION

Jordan = 767 MILLION

Mexico = 718 MILLION

Senegal = 702 MILLION

West Bank/Gaza = 693 MILLION

South Africa = 567 MILLION

Tanzania = 554 MILLION

Russia = 505 MILLION

Uganda = 487 MILLION

Nigeria = 459 MILLION

Georgia = 437 MILLION

Mozambique = 404 MILLION

Congo (Kinshasa) = 388 MILLION

Indonesia = 338 MILLION

Zambia = 331 MILLION

Kazakhstan = 321 MILLION


United States foreign aid - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[Tinner666]

'The Invisible Shield'



Well, I've seen that one plan is being considered in someschools and already in use in other schools.

Believe it or not,some teachers are gun owners! Like us! Can you believe it?

Well, some that are willing to undergo additional background checks and training with local or SPD and their SWAT teams. They are being allowed to CCW in school. They're not policing anything. They just teach but also learn what to do in case of a nutcase. And it's not rocket science.

Lock the doors, herd the kids into the nearest safe place, Get behind a barricade if possible and sit there between them and danger. If a nutcase was to come through the door, fire and stop the threat.

They're just regular Joe's like the rest of us and may even have their own kids in the same school. It's truly a win-win by many standards. They'reknown as the ‘Invisible Shield’ and woe unto the lunatic that runs afoul of it.

This is not more government of which we have plenty of, but common sense and costs nothing but the time for extra training. The NRA has offered to sponsor some or all of that.

 

[ArmedProgrammer]

There ya go, Tinner!

Not adding a government program... Blasphemy! Blasphemy, I tell you!


And then we can use all of that foreign aid to pay down the debt...