No Jobs? Mike Rowe's Lament

[hornadylnl]

Which campus? You should have been able to just register for the classes you wanted. They also have certificate programs that I don't think require the general education credits as the degree programs.

Lafayette. I think I could have got the single classes if I pushed the issue but I was pretty off put by their attitude. For my maintenance trainee classes at work, we used Ivy Tech. They hired contractors to teach us 3 days a week for 3 months. Our electrical teacher would fall asleep in class regularly. He worked 3rd shift in a factory, come teach our class and then do side jobs after that. He was also very diabetic. When we brought these issues up with the rep from Ivy Tech, all he did was make excuses. We were getting screwed as most of the classes were a complete joke. I'll likely never give Ivy Tech a dime of my money.

 

[hornadylnl]

I had the luxury of having a great vocational program when I was in high school. Our teacher started teaching in the mid 60's and retired somewhere around the late 90's. They had a replacement for a year or 2 but as far as I know, all the shop equipment is now gone and there are no more classes.

The teacher I had could have easily made $100k in industry. He would crawl to hell and back to teach you something if you were willing to learn. He stretched his budget so much that it was unreal the stuff that we had to work with. He knew a guy at Delco and would get cars donated to the school for us to work on. One year, we got a 90 Vette ZR1 and a 91 Vette LT1 convertible donated. I don't think any teacher in that school corporation can say with any integrity that they had more of a positive influence on the careers of their students than that shop teacher did.

 

[the1kidd03]

I had the luxury of having a great vocational program when I was in high school. Our teacher started teaching in the mid 60's and retired somewhere around the late 90's. They had a replacement for a year or 2 but as far as I know, all the shop equipment is now gone and there are no more classes.

The teacher I had could have easily made $100k in industry. He would crawl to hell and back to teach you something if you were willing to learn. He stretched his budget so much that it was unreal the stuff that we had to work with. He knew a guy at Delco and would get cars donated to the school for us to work on. One year, we got a 90 Vette ZR1 and a 91 Vette LT1 convertible donated. I don't think any teacher in that school corporation can say with any integrity that they had more of a positive influence on the careers of their students than that shop teacher did.

Sounds like some of the vocational programs at Ben Davis back when I attended there. Last I knew, their programs had grown so much that all of the surrounding school districts allowed select students to drive to the BD campus and attend their vocational classes. Even as far away as Shelbyville.

 

[jamil]

For years we've been told that to succeed in the future economy, you need a college degree. We've been told that the US economic base is moving from manufacturing to service based. We see factory jobs moving to china as evidence that "they" were correct.

So now, people who may have been happier in a blue collar job are going to college, getting into debt, majoring in silly ****, earning worthless degrees. Yesterday I talked to a young lady working in an ice-cream shop as an assistant manager. She has a degree in History and all the student loan debt that goes with that. She seemed to really enjoy her job. She's just one bad decision away from being in the same job she enjoys but without the debt.

What I would tell young people now is, decide what kind of work would you do for free if you didn't have to earn a living. Figure out a way to make money doing that. If it requires a degree, go to college and earn the degree you need. If it takes vocational training, do that.

 

[rhino]

Lafayette. I think I could have got the single classes if I pushed the issue but I was pretty off put by their attitude. For my maintenance trainee classes at work, we used Ivy Tech. They hired contractors to teach us 3 days a week for 3 months. Our electrical teacher would fall asleep in class regularly. He worked 3rd shift in a factory, come teach our class and then do side jobs after that. He was also very diabetic. When we brought these issues up with the rep from Ivy Tech, all he did was make excuses. We were getting screwed as most of the classes were a complete joke. I'll likely never give Ivy Tech a dime of my money.

That's pretty bad. I wish I were surprised.

I think that at this point, the better for-profit vocational schools are the way to go. Ivy Tech used to be one of those, and I think trying to turn it into a junior college first, and now a community college was a huge mistake.

 

[qmikep]

While I was a production welder, I wanted to take some stick welding classes so I could try to get into maintenance welding. All Ivy Tech wanted to talk to me about was a degree program. Don't think there was any questions on Shakespeare or Picasso on the weld test at work.

Went through damn near the same thing with them. They eventually gave up and I got to take the two individual classes that I wanted.

 

[Leo]

My comment on Ivy Tech; Once again, when a person pays bottom barrel wages they eliminate the obtainment or the retention of the best and brightest. Ivy Tech's compensation for the part time adjuct professors is pretty low. If a teacher is dedicated and puts in the extra work, and spends a little extra time with the students, they end up clearing minimum wage. That is not the students fault, as they are paying in good faith for the education. The administration is totally responsible for the staff. If you they would pay an extra $30 per evening, they would end up being able to offer a far more satisfying classroom experience.

 

[cook4army]

When I was in high school, 86-90, our high school wasnt large enough to have a vocational program, but the larger city to our west did. As a junior, you could enroll in the Votech classes, and could choose between, metal working, auto body and repair, carpenter apprenticeship, culinary arts and one more I cant recall. Anyways, as time progressed, and the school budget became more and more stringent, they shut down all those classes. Ive seen schools dump art, music, PE, shop class, and home ec first because they dont have the $$ to pay for these programs, but seem to find more and more money for the football, or basketball programs.

Its a shame really....as citizens of a town/city/county/state, we pay taxes that pay for these schools, yet we have zero say in how that money is spent, and then sit there and wonder why little johnny or little jane, cant read, write, nail two boards together, or change a tire.

 

[snapping turtle]

I have not done as many of the dirty jobs he has done. That said I have done bailing hay, scrap yard work. Construction for years.

I see people take advantage of employers and employers take advantage of people. It seems that some give and take needs to be taken into account on both sides. At some point most seem to fall into a sweet spot or find a good employer or a good employee.

that said it is harder now to find a good even Steven job as you always start low man and work up. Expenses are higher wages are semi stagnant and the old line of of you don't like this or that there are 100 applications in the main office.

 

[actaeon277]

There is also more underlying reason than people tend to think of.

........
In short, it's not entirely the employee's "fault." Just because a business has a job to fill, doesn't mean they are going about business or fulfilling it in the appropriate fashion.

Had to shorten, that was a nice explanation, but too long for me to quote.
I agree with some of what you say, the companies can be at fault.
But I've seen guys with 4 year elec degrees that can't check current with a meter.
Or they are great at DESIGNING a circuit, but they can't DIAGNOSE what's wrong with an existing one.

 

[the1kidd03]

Had to shorten, that was a nice explanation, but too long for me to quote.
I agree with some of what you say, the companies can be at fault.
But I've seen guys with 4 year elec degrees that can't check current with a meter.
Or they are great at DESIGNING a circuit, but they can't DIAGNOSE what's wrong with an existing one.

Agreed. Degrees aren't all they're cracked up to be. My BS largely goes to waste. I was merely aiming to point out that when a company simply says "we can't find qualified workers" isn't as one sided as most people assume from the statement all the time. A company is only as good as it's leadership. Just because a company exists doesn't mean they operate as effectively or efficiently as they could.

Just as in your example. Some employers, due to lack of effective leadership, would not hire the person you are describing. Rather than invest in their people a little bit by giving them the experience and training they need to be better, they simply pass them up in hopes of finding someone better. That's not always the appropriate choice. A company must be willing to invest in the quality and potential of their people to some degree, or they will face unfilled positions regularly.

 

[roadrunner681]

one issue i see as a beginner mechanic, is the simple fact that most places that will hire young people give you no chance to advance, and you have to find another job after a year or two.

 

[actaeon277]

Agreed. Degrees aren't all they're cracked up to be. My BS largely goes to waste. I was merely aiming to point out that when a company simply says "we can't find qualified workers" isn't as one sided as most people assume from the statement all the time. A company is only as good as it's leadership. Just because a company exists doesn't mean they operate as effectively or efficiently as they could.

Just as in your example. Some employers, due to lack of effective leadership, would not hire the person you are describing. Rather than invest in their people a little bit by giving them the experience and training they need to be better, they simply pass them up in hopes of finding someone better. That's not always the appropriate choice. A company must be willing to invest in the quality and potential of their people to some degree, or they will face unfilled positions regularly.

Oh, my company hires them, but not always training them.
Our day shift guy already works 60 hours a week, and was finally asked if he would train some people in our division, but he would still have to do his 60 hour job, the training would be the 60-80 hours of the week. WTF? 60 is bad enough for a couple years. 80?

 

[9mmfan]

My son's a junior in HS now. He's never been particularly fond or good at school. During his first two years he got a chance to weld. Now he goes to a center every afternoon from school for a welding program. He likes it a great deal and I'm finally glad he enjoys something. If he sticks with it he has a real chance to make some good money.

I'm afraid if he hadn't found anything he would probably become a full time burger flipper or taco maker.


While my own field didn't require a degree, I did get one. I can tell you the first year was total BS. The second year finally got into the meat of what the program was about (I have an AAS).

 

[SSGSAD]

I work in a steel mill. And there is always trouble trying to find maintenance workers. Too many parents didn't want their child to sling a wrench.

My First Sgt., in the INARNG, works at a Railroad, for the Steel Mill, up North, and he makes WAY more that $75,000 a year.....

 

[the1kidd03]

Oh, my company hires them, but not always training them.
Our day shift guy already works 60 hours a week, and was finally asked if he would train some people in our division, but he would still have to do his 60 hour job, the training would be the 60-80 hours of the week. WTF? 60 is bad enough for a couple years. 80?

Yeah, unfortunately a lot of companies don't see the value in hiring professionals to handle training. They don't realize the options out there and just assume that the only one is to hire someone to train them which would cost a lot, or they could use existing employees. They don't bother to hire consultants, look into hiring a full time trainer, or other training resources like local classes, computer based training aids, etc. Too many times leaders in business are victims of their own lack in willingness to research, or to change with the times.

When consulting with fresh college grads I tell them to use this aspect to their advantage in interviews. When asked, "Why should we hire you?" one of their responses should include the idea that while they have the basic understanding of their necessary duties, they are also free of bad habits and you (the employer) can train them to your expectations without having to deal with any bad habits such as comes from more experienced employees.

Whether or not those students choose the take that advice come interview time is up to them however.

My wife's mentioned to me several times where she's had conversations with her company about bringing me in for leadership consulting and to replace their corporate trainer because of the problems her offices have. They could certainly benefit from both from what she tells me, but the problem is that they are already undergoing a culture shift from having been purchased by a larger multi-national corporation from outside the country. It's difficult enough making a shift once, let alone twice in a short amount of time. Plus a foreign country is much less likely to seek/accept such assistance.

 

[Rookie]

Had to shorten, that was a nice explanation, but too long for me to quote.
I agree with some of what you say, the companies can be at fault.
But I've seen guys with 4 year elec degrees that can't check current with a meter.
Or they are great at DESIGNING a circuit, but they can't DIAGNOSE what's wrong with an existing one.

We have the same issue at my job. We have supervisors with four year degrees that can't tell you the first thing about the jobs they supervise. Workers with only ninety days know more than supervisors with five years, so there's a big disconnect between reality and what they want. Our best supervisors we're hired off the floor with zero college, but they're all hitting retirement age.

Managements answer? We now have one supervisor for every seven production workers!

 

[the1kidd03]

one issue i see as a beginner mechanic, is the simple fact that most places that will hire young people give you no chance to advance, and you have to find another job after a year or two.

Some smaller companies prey on beginners. They know they can get people to get the job done to a satisfactory level and get away with paying them less. They often target newbies and/or undocumented workers depending on the type of job.

That said, a lot of times they are willing to advance those who show potential. They may just not advertise their willingness to do so. Ask youself, What can you do for them? What can you do to either increase their revenue, or reduce costs? etc.

Most companies promote motivated employees who seek to benefit the company. Simply coming in and doing what is already expected of you at the base level is not necessarily motivated in their eyes. Think outside the box. Give them ideas to increase revenue, get more business, save more money, etc. Bring those ideas up to the highest level you can respectfully (because often middle management drops the ball and are more self-serving to a point of taking credit for others' ideas.) It's this sort of motivation to take these things on, bring them up, and showing this dedication to your employer's success that they seek and will reward in return.

Again, not ALL have the ability to advance, but just keep this concept in mind no matter where you go. Sometimes it just takes getting a few years experience and moving on to a better opportunity.

 

[roadrunner681]

Some smaller companies prey on beginners. They know they can get people to get the job done to a satisfactory level and get away with paying them less. They often target newbies and/or undocumented workers depending on the type of job.

That said, a lot of times they are willing to advance those who show potential. They may just not advertise their willingness to do so. Ask youself, What can you do for them? What can you do to either increase their revenue, or reduce costs? etc.

Most companies promote motivated employees who seek to benefit the company. Simply coming in and doing what is already expected of you at the base level is not necessarily motivated in their eyes. Think outside the box. Give them ideas to increase revenue, get more business, save more money, etc. Bring those ideas up to the highest level you can respectfully (because often middle management drops the ball and are more self-serving to a point of taking credit for others' ideas.) It's this sort of motivation to take these things on, bring them up, and showing this dedication to your employer's success that they seek and will reward in return.

Again, not ALL have the ability to advance, but just keep this concept in mind no matter where you go. Sometimes it just takes getting a few years experience and moving on to a better opportunity.

i know this, but what i mean is i would like to see more apprenticeship opportunity's if this had been available in my area i would of done this insted of putting myself in debt at a tech school. i think tech schools are great but real world on the job experince is very hard to get a school.( the place i went tried very hard to do so). as ive learned the hard way my schooling got me in the door, but i still don't know crap i think ive learned more in the last three months than i did in three years at school.

 

[roadrunner681]

Oh, my company hires them, but not always training them.
Our day shift guy already works 60 hours a week, and was finally asked if he would train some people in our division, but he would still have to do his 60 hour job, the training would be the 60-80 hours of the week. WTF? 60 is bad enough for a couple years. 80?

wow, im 21 and 50 hours of work a week wears me down by the end Saturday. how can anyone expect someone to work like that for for a month let alone years? that cant be good on his health.