Obama Forums: Gun Owners are Terrorists

[SavageEagle]

RTBF has accumulated LOTS of bad Karma.

I don't disagree. I just haven't been reded by him so i won't start with him. Let him troll.

 

[RaiseTheBlackFlag]

karma? I thought you hard core republicans were bible totin' christians. Lest we forget that jesus doesn't believe in karma.

 

[SavageEagle]

Who said I was a Christian? I just said i was God Fearing. I'm not Agnostic or Atheist, I just don't believe the same things that all religions believe. But I'm not going into depth about religion because that's a whole forum, not just thread, in itself.

If you keep presuming to know things about us I suggest you leave our company because I'm no longer amused by your ignorance. If you have something worth while to add to this thread that is SUPPOSE to be about the obamatard forums, then please, feel free to share. Otherwise open a new thread titled "I'm Here To Bash Your Ideals" or be on your way to other threads/forums.

 

[RaiseTheBlackFlag]

If you keep presuming to know things about us I suggest you leave our company because I'm no longer amused by your ignorance.

sarcasm must be new to you...anyway whats this "us" stuff and this "ignorance" thing? really...just because I have different political views? wow I must say that I should agree with everything that everyone has to say then, in order to make you happy. Thank you for reminding me that reasoned dissent is frowned upon. Maybe I'll agree more often just so we can high five each other.

 

[Scutter01]

sarcasm must be new to you...anyway whats this "us" stuff and this "ignorance" thing? really...just because I have different political views? wow I must say that I should agree with everything that everyone has to say then, in order to make you happy. Thank you for reminding me that reasoned dissent is frowned upon. Maybe I'll agree more often just so we can high five each other.

Reasoned dissent is welcome. Personal attacks are not reasoned dissent and there have been altogether too many today in general and in this thread in particular. Can we please get back on track?

 

[SavageEagle]

Sorry Scutter, it must be said.

RTBF, the negative rep was uncalled for. If you were being sarcastic, use a smilie to show it. "Tone" of typing is laughable so I did not know. US means everyone you've been arguing with in this thread. Ignorance is what I call it when someone presumes to know something in which they have no factual evidence of and just has no real knowledge of in general. We will not give obamatard a chance just because he is now president. He has a history. That history involves voting for every Constitutional Infringement Bill come for vote in Illinois. The killing of children AFTER THEY ARE BORN and calling it abortion. He voted to allow that. Voting to allow taxes that are choking the people of Illinois to death. And voting FOR every Anti-Gun bill to come up for vote and against every Pro Gun bill come up for vote. He sat as a boardmember for the Joyce Foundation. He is part of the Daily Machine. Everyone knows he had SOMETHING to do with the whole Governor scandal, but because he is now the President, they will cover it up to protect him. They as in every agency that investigates.

So no, we will not give him the benefit of the doubt. We will not give him a chance. We are the people who study history and learn from our past mistakes. We will not tolerate unjust acts from our government any longer. You keep giving him chances. When he destroys this Country, hang your head, and ask why. We will be fighting, knowing EXACTLY why.

 

[ATM]

before the thread gets locked...

*high fives Scutter01*

 

[Scutter01]

before the thread gets locked...

*high fives Scutter01*

The correct phrase is "IBTL" (in before the lock)...

 

[SavageEagle]

YAY! ME too! IBTL!!

*High Five* Yea!

 

[bwframe]

Get a hold of yourselves folks! Don't you know not to feed the trolls?
They should be ignored, respectfully discussed, but not acknowledged. This isn't the first and won't be the last.

 

[finity]

Its sad that some people are so insecure in their beliefs or that their world view is so fragile that they just can't bring themselves to read a dissenting point of view with an open mind occasionally. Its pathetic & childish that some people feel the need to shield themselves from any type of reasonable debate about important issues going on right now by "ignoring" those they don't agree with 100%. I feel truly sorry for those who think there are no "gray areas" in life; that its all "black & white" & that "your either with us or against us".

Are some of the conservatives here really so blinded that they can honestly say they've taken the high road while the liberals are just anti-American, ignorant, idiots or trolls? Gimme a break.

[sarcasm - just to be clear]I mean, I've never seen any conservative here promote the assasination of Obama (it was changed after I pointed it out), a new Revolution, etc.[/sarcasm]

Most conservatives here feel that all liberals are elitist, anti-gun socialists (some are) as evidenced by the fact that I don't think that there is one single thread of any length in the Political forum (& most of the other forums as well) that doesn't have someone bashing on "liberals" whether or not its deserved (with the requisite chest thumping & high-fiving going on after the fact). I also have to say that some of the people on this forum reinforce the liberal view of conservatives as being ignorant, redneck, fear- & war-mongering racists. Some of that goes on on both sides. You really think there aren't elitist, gun-grabbing conservatives? If not then you need to open your eyes & get out more in the real world (or since its easier just hit the "ignore" button).

I think its interesting that the non-conservatives who speak up about the most ridiculous & spurious comments about Obama, Democrats or liberals are accused of being full blown Obama supporters & gun-grabbers even though none has implied that they were.

Whats the point of having, or visiting, a Political forum if you really don't want to potentially have a debate about...um...politics occasionally.

I guess we could all just agree on everything or better yet go back to arguing about OC vs. CC or 9mm vs. .45. That'll be fun.

RTBF, try to disregard the personal attacks. It seems to be the M.O. of some of the other members here. I'm sure its really nothing personal. Its just that, sometimes, when you run out of ideas, there's just nothing else left to fall back on.

 

[Blue Tile Spook]

Its sad that some people are so insecure in their beliefs or that their world view is so fragile that they just can't bring themselves to read a dissenting point of view with an open mind occasionally.

I represent no one else on INGO, I only speak for myself. That said...

I am not insecure in my beliefs. I have beliefs that are so strong that I can hear a dissenting, passionate plea, trying to play on my emotions and not be swayed by that plea one iota. Ask my son about it. He pleads with me every night before bedtime that it is unfair that he can't stay up later, that I am being mean and he hints that it just might be abuse if I don't let him stay up later. If I don't let my own son's arguments sway me, why would I let a liberal agenda sway me when I disagree with it 100%? And I am in no way a Republican, I am a Libertarian that wants only the slimmest of governments.

Its pathetic & childish that some people feel the need to shield themselves from any type of reasonable debate about important issues going on right now by "ignoring" those they don't agree with 100%.

It is childish and pathetic to become a member of a forum like INGO when you know (or should have known by researching INGO before joining) that it is primarily a Libertarian forum. Wouldn't that be the same as a girl trying to join the boy's football team or vice versa? No one says that a boy or girl can't play football, girls need to play football with girls and boys need to play football with boys. If you have Liberal leanings, why in the world would you join a Libertarian forum other than to cause dissention amongst its members?

I feel truly sorry for those who think there are no "gray areas" in life; that its all "black & white" & that "your either with us or against us".

I have rules in my home and I have similar personal rules for dealing with friends or general members of the public. If a person is a clerk in a store and you lie to me or screw me on a transaction - that person is now labeled "bad" in my mind and I stay away from them. If a friend lies to me? He is labeled "bad" and he is no longer my friend. If my son breaks the house rules, he is confronted, must confess his disregard of the rules, is counseled, punished appropriately and then watched for a determined amount of time to make sure that he doesn't further disregard any more rules.

Black and white. Wrong is wrong. Right is right.

For me and my family, there are no "gray areas" in our dealings with one another because then I am not doing my job as his father by laying down the reasonable rules for the members of my household and then not holding him or myself accountable to those rules. IMO, that only teaches him that he (or I) can break our common rules and get by with it.

I hold my politicians to the same standard. If I write to Dick Lugar about an issue and he sends me a nice letter back saying that he supports my point of view and then a vote comes up and he votes against what he said that he supported - He lied to me. There is no gray there. He broke the common rule to "Say what you mean and mean what you say", plus, he lied.

Are some of the conservatives here really so blinded that they can honestly say they've taken the high road while the liberals are just anti-American, ignorant, idiots or trolls? Gimme a break.

I think that you are mixing the term "conservatives" and "republicans" in your statement.

Do I think that there are conservatives that are honorable? Yes. Do I think that there are Liberals that are honorable? Yes. To me, the problem is that the republicans and the democrats that we send to Washington are either corrupt when they arrive in D.C. or they are corrupted shortly after arriving there. I see no difference between the D's and R's other than what they label themselves, just like they all have different names.

I do say that Liberals are anti-american because they lean toward a socialist style of living and a socialist style of governing. Socialist ideals are not what America was founded on, in my opinion. The Pilgrims came here to escape oppression and let every man make his own way in "the new world". If they did found this country on socialist ideals then the first laws that would have been passed would have been for programs like social security or welfare. But no, they took care of their sick, elderly, their infirmed until they could stand on their own again and take care of themselves and not to invent a standard of living that becomes a way of life.

On a local, county, state and national level I see and hear liberals wanting more and more tax dollars "for the children", "for the public good", for whatever reason! And I see and hear those liberals wanting to put more and more restrictions on my freedom, my liberty, my property, my son's education, "for the common good!" BULL PUCKEY! I'll take care of mine, "you" take care of you.

[sarcasm - just to be clear]I mean, I've never seen any conservative here promote the assasination of Obama (it was changed after I pointed it out), a new Revolution, etc.[/sarcasm]

Instead of responding to all of the posts that you have in such a way that makes you sound as if you consider anyone who even approaches the line of assassination as being mentally challenged or unbalanced, how about seeing their words for what they really are? Some members of the public are starting to say "no more." No more taxes, no more losing liberties, no more monitoring of my private life, no more monitoring of my finances, no more telling me what I can eat, drink or kill (animals by way of hunting).

My question to you is: Why aren't you more upset about people voluntarily giving up their liberties and/or having them taken away?

Most conservatives here feel that all liberals are elitist, anti-gun socialists (some are) as evidenced by the fact that I don't think that there is one single thread of any length in the Political forum (& most of the other forums as well) that doesn't have someone bashing on "liberals" whether or not its deserved (with the requisite chest thumping & high-fiving going on after the fact). I also have to say that some of the people on this forum reinforce the liberal view of conservatives as being ignorant, redneck, fear- & war-mongering racists. Some of that goes on on both sides. You really think there aren't elitist, gun-grabbing conservatives? If not then you need to open your eyes & get out more in the real world (or since its easier just hit the "ignore" button).

Sorry, but the term "democrat" only brings up a picture of Al Gore in my mind with his $20,000 a month electric bill and his personal jet in which he streaks around the world and creates more carbon gas in one flight than my immediate and extended family do in one year. If democrats want to compare who is doing more to conserve natural resources, would it be a "redneck conservative" like me or a progressive democrat like Al Gore? My heat is set at 68*, what is his set at?

Personally I don't like namecalling on either side. I can explain my beliefs without resorting to curse words or belittling someone's character.

I think its interesting that the non-conservatives who speak up about the most ridiculous & spurious comments about Obama, Democrats or liberals are accused of being full blown Obama supporters & gun-grabbers even though none has implied that they were.

I consider that like a woman who is "a little bit pregnant." It's an impossibility to hang in the middle. You either are or you aren't. And what do I find when I watch these people who label themself as "moderate"? They lean whichever way the wind blows. Right now, that is leaning toward Obama and liberalism which means, with words right from the horse's (Obama's) mouth that he wants to limit 2A rights. Rahm Emanuel has said nearly the same thing. And they will take those moderates right along with them.

Whats the point of having, or visiting, a Political forum if you really don't want to potentially have a debate about...um...politics occasionally.

See my question to you as written above. I don't believe that you want a debate, I believe that you want to convert and to cause dissention.

I guess we could all just agree on everything or better yet go back to arguing about OC vs. CC or 9mm vs. .45. That'll be fun.

You know, that might not be such a bad idea! Afterall, this IS the Indiana Gun Owners forum, not the Indiana Politics forum.

RTBF, try to disregard the personal attacks. It seems to be the M.O. of some of the other members here. I'm sure its really nothing personal. Its just that, sometimes, when you run out of ideas, there's just nothing else left to fall back on.

I still think that either you or RTBF is a sockpuppet. If you don't know what that means, google it. There have been too many similar statements from the both of you that either you two are reading from the same "playbook" that you have accused some INGO members of, or you are using sockpuppets to try to support your points.

 

[bwframe]

....

Like I said...

 

[SavageEagle]

Like I said...

I'm sorry, I'm weak. I just woke up.

Finity, I don't think you read ANYTHING that was posted. RTBF didn't answer our questions, made very broad and off-question answers, and was generally being a nuisance. There was no dissenting views, only "give the man a chance". We pointed out, very eloquently, why we would not give this man the benefit of a doubt and was given cheap shots by this guy.

So for you to make that long, lengthy, blabbering statement about being open minded and having a healthy debate was completely unfounded and pointless. I'm up for having a GOOD debate. But I will not be talked down to, I will not be spoon fed any lies, I DO NOT drink the kool-aid, and I will not listen to someone tell me how wrong I am for what they see is a falacy or ignorance on my part. Which is what your lengthy, unfounded post amounts to.

You can defend the troll all you like but that doesn't make you or him right or give you any foundation to stand on in your arguement. I suggest you go back and re-read the thread and actually cite references of where he was giving a disenting view that we would not listen to. Have fun because there was no such case occuring.

Now that i've said all that, I feel better and I need to go get dressed and wake my little ones. We have a long day of chores and I have many letters to write afterwards. I'll check back later to see if you've come up with a reasonable arguement or not.

Edit: BTW, BTS, I read most of that. RIGHT THE **** ON BROTHA!

 

[techres]

If you have Liberal leanings, why in the world would you join a Libertarian forum other than to cause dissention amongst its members?

Just to point out this is a gun forum for Indiana Gun Owners. I see noting in the FAQ's anywhere that indicates that this site has an official or unofficial political affiliation, rather it has officially shied away from any official position as a site.

Additionally, as one of the minority that openly threatened to vote 3rd party in the last election and was *debated strongly* by the majority here about how that was the wrong choice (I am using diplomatic words here as you can review those threads yourself), I am under no illusion that libertarians make up the majority of the demographic here as a political affiliation.

And, personally, I see no trolls in this thread. People whose opinions may be frustrating and perhaps not argued in a way that others find convincing p- sure. Classically defined trolls - nope. And yes, I have read all the posts and have been grinding my teeth for days now.

Oh, and, IBTL!

 

[Blue Tile Spook]

I apologize to all members here and to Fenway. I didn't watch my words carefully enough in my post and I do not mean to put words into Fenway's mouth. I apologize for saying that this is a Libertarian forum when, as you, Techres, pointed out, Fenway seems to have no stated political position for INGO.

I can only explain my thinking at the moment that I hit SUBMIT, and that was that most of the posts I read on here seem to be very, very conservative in nature and I stuck my foot in my mouth by saying that it was Libertarianism.

Once again, I apologize to one and all.

BTS

 

[Pami]

I've completely forgotten what this thread was even originally about.

And yes, just to clarify, this GUN forum is meant to be a cross-party forum. We created the Politics forum because it's sometimes necessary to discuss current bills in the House and Senate on local, state and federal levels. On our myspace page, we actually denied friendship with Andy Horning because we didn't want to give the appearance of solely supporting his bid for Governor, even though there are many people here who actually support his entire platform. We are trying to be *that* apolitical as far as party sponsorship goes.

This. Is. A. GUN. Forum.

It is NOT a political forum. It is NOT a bacon forum. It is not a Funny Pic forum. It is a GUN forum, first and foremost and always. And we will ALWAYS welcome members of ANY party. Have your debates. Keep the personal attacks out of them. Focus on the issues, not the messenger.