OC at Church?

[Mark 1911]

Church is one place where I would choose to CC out of respect. In church people should be focused on what is going on in church, not on my weapon. I think reverence for God comes first, as they say, the glory belongs to Him. I understand that outside church I am not so concerned with folks perception of whether my OC is right or wrong, and I am happy to engage people in discussion on the topic if they so choose. But inside the church, I should not allow myself to become a distraction for my fellow man when he is trying to focus on the Lord. This is one place where I can practice some deference in this department for my fellow man's sensibilities. There are enough distractions as there are in the world without letting myself become one for a fellow worshipper when his focus should be on the Lord, not on me - and God knows I have my own distractions to deal with. There is a time and a place for everything. OC may be perfectly appropriate in most other scenarios, but I personally don't think Church is the place for OC. Just my

 

[JettaKnight]

[reserved for the future]

 

[actaeon277]

[reserved for the future]

There is no future.
Time is an illusion.
Lunchtime doubly so.

 

[Burnsy]

Church is one place where I would choose to CC out of respect. In church people should be focused on what is going on in church, not on my weapon. I think reverence for God comes first, as they say, the glory belongs to Him. I understand that outside church I am not so concerned with folks perception of whether my OC is right or wrong, and I am happy to engage people in discussion on the topic if they so choose. But inside the church, I should not allow myself to become a distraction for my fellow man when he is trying to focus on the Lord. This is one place where I can practice some deference in this department for my fellow man's sensibilities. There are enough distractions as there are in the world without letting myself become one for a fellow worshipper when his focus should be on the Lord, not on me - and God knows I have my own distractions to deal with. There is a time and a place for everything. OC may be perfectly appropriate in most other scenarios, but I personally don't think Church is the place for OC. Just my

I honestly am curious, not being sarcastic. If you default OC, why do you CC at church? If you feel that your visible firearm, should not be a problem in every other location, common place and should not be any more of a distraction than the sight of your cellphone if you carry it on your hip. Why would it be a distraction or improper in one specific location?

I don't practice religion but was reared and confirmed catholic. None of my required studies mentioned that that God had a problem with self preservation or weapons.

 

[Mark 1911]

I honestly am curious, not being sarcastic. If you default OC, why do you CC at church? If you feel that your visible firearm, should not be a problem in every other location, common place and should not be any more of a distraction than the sight of your cellphone if you carry it on your hip. Why would it be a distraction or improper in one specific location?

I don't practice religion but was reared and confirmed catholic. None of my required studies mentioned that that God had a problem with self preservation or weapons.

I do OC by default, but there are times when I CC. I don't get involved in the OC/CC debate. I do both as appropriate at a given time. When it's cold outside and my favorite holster is under my coat, then I CC. When I go into the barber shop and take my coat off, then I OC. When the weather warms up and the coat stays in the closet, I OC by default.

I think I tried to explain myself regarding church. Like you, I don't believe that God has a problem with self-preservation either or I would not even carry a weapon at all. But I don't think that is the point. I agree with you, but there is something more important in a church. It is not a matter of what I am legally allowed or not allowed to do in church; it is a matter of what I bring as a small part of a larger gathering that is focused entirely on the Lord. Outside the church we can generally offer up our routine activities for God or for others, but in church, our focus is expressly and intently on God alone. Part of what should be happening in church, at least interiorly, is to foster a desire that everyone around us should have the best meeting with the Lord during that time that they can, the same as I hope for myself, and that their personal experience is as good or maybe even better than my own personal encounter with God, and I should not interfere with that in any way.

Church is a place where people of many differing outlooks on life come together, but there is one thing that everyone there has in common, they have come there to worship. I understand that there are many there who do not know the first thing about firearms. Outside the church I go about my everyday affairs and if I cross paths with someone who is surprised at the sight of my firearm, I am prepared to deal with their reaction, whatever it may be - I can't do that in a church. You ask why the firearm would be a distraction in one specific location. My point is that the location is not the point, the observer is. I understand that to some observers, firearms are something they are not used to, and I will deal with their reaction as circumstances require outside the church. Inside the church, everyone's entire attention and focus should be on one thing only, and that is the worship of the Lord. This is one place where those things not related to worship should take a back seat. I should care more here about my fellow worshipper’s worship, than how he perceives my firearm. I should not become a stumbling block for any man if his desire is to come closer to God.

I think there is also a question of what is appropriate attire for a worship service. The attire we wear in a church should be respectful and appropriate for the occasion. Tight pants and very short skirts may be appropriate for a woman outside of church, but are a distraction to many men for obvious reasons inside the church, even though the woman wearing them may honestly not be trying to distract anyone. Tank tops and flip flops are not the attire I would choose for a reverent occasion, they are not the best way we can present ourselves, even though they may be more comfortable than more formal attire, but we can make that small sacrifice for God out of love. A sidearm may be a perfectly natural accessory for me, but right or wrong it will get the attention of other people, and yes it will be a distraction for some of them. I simply don't want to elicit any reaction or attention at all, whether voluntarily or involuntarily. In church, that attention belongs to God alone, and that is one place where I can and should respect the fact that not all people have the same awareness, knowledge of, and comfort level with firearms that I do.

RIGHT OR WRONG, I don't want my weapon to be the cause of another person losing his focus or recollection that he may only enjoy during that brief hour during the week. We all know that spiritual recollection is not an easy thing to maintain for anyone. As you mentioned, some people totally give up on it, and that is a very good reason why people's effort at spiritual recollection deserves our deep respect when we are in a church. Nor do I want my own spiritual recollection or that of those around me to be interrupted by someone else's comment or other untimely reaction which would have to wait until after the service for a response anyway.

The reason we carry in a church is because, unfortunately, bad things can happen even in a church. If the unlikely situation arose where a firearm would be needed, it will be there. If it is not needed, it will remain tucked away and out of sight until after the service.

 

[thatgtrguy]

I honestly am curious, not being sarcastic. If you default OC, why do you CC at church? If you feel that your visible firearm, should not be a problem in every other location, common place and should not be any more of a distraction than the sight of your cellphone if you carry it on your hip. Why would it be a distraction or improper in one specific location?

I don't practice religion but was reared and confirmed catholic. None of my required studies mentioned that that God had a problem with self preservation or weapons.

Many churches value peace almost to the point of being pacifists.

 

[.45 Dave]

I carry CC and I also carry CC at church. I don't know if my pastor knows I do or not and I really don't care. He does know my stand on firearms and has no issue with that so it may be an instance of "don't ask, don't tell". Just my .02 on the topic.

 

[BOBBALOU]

I CC at church. I don't want everyone looking at it and being rattled or talking. Plus you could lose your advantage if you OC. A vest or jacket conceals but allows quick access if you need it. There have been several instances at churches lately. Stealing in the parking lot etc. Criminals know that churches are like schools, an easy target. It's just a matter of time with the King of America making the decisions he is. I.E. letting illegal aliens out of prison yesterday and HIS sequester about to take effect.

 

[richieray]

I cannot reply like I would like to without breaking the rules. I will just say that people not liking something and causing someone to stumble are very different. I'll be glad to discuss this over PM.

would like to hear your thoughts (a thouhgtful exchange of ideas is the only way to grow ones mind) would you please pm them to me

 

[churchmouse]

I honestly am curious, not being sarcastic. If you default OC, why do you CC at church? If you feel that your visible firearm, should not be a problem in every other location, common place and should not be any more of a distraction than the sight of your cellphone if you carry it on your hip. Why would it be a distraction or improper in one specific location?

I don't practice religion but was reared and confirmed catholic. None of my required studies mentioned that that God had a problem with self preservation or weapons.

That is not the point being made. I understand your view but in the end
this is about people and a place. No more or less than that.
Having been a part of (by marriage) different faiths it is still about people. Period.

 

[jkwparrott]

I CC at church. I don't want everyone looking at it and being rattled or talking. Plus you could lose your advantage if you OC. A vest or jacket conceals but allows quick access if you need it. There have been several instances at churches lately. Stealing in the parking lot etc. Criminals know that churches are like schools, an easy target. It's just a matter of time with the King of America making the decisions he is. I.E. letting illegal aliens out of prison yesterday and HIS sequester about to take effect.

Lose my advantage? What advantage? I see CC as a disadvantage, you can't get to your gun nearly as fast as I can. But that's a debate for others to complain about, it will never be settled.

As for churches, I recently did a little research. There were over 115 shootings in churches in the US last year. I agree that criminals probably think of churches as no gun zones, but not mine. I OC everywhere, even in church. I am an elder in my church and I like to think that I am a well respected part of the congregation. I have been going to my church for over 5 years and have never even been asked about my gun or why I carry, not even by the minister.

I agree that in some congregations this could be a problem, but if were so at my church I would find another one. What does the Bible say? "Judge not, lest ye be judged" sounds familiar.

 

[SERparacord]

You can carry in Church, but it won't stop the lightning bolts.

 

[churchmouse]

You can carry in Church, but it won't stop the lightning bolts.

As I understand it the MOA involved with said bolts is on point.

 

[thatgtrguy]

You can carry in Church, but it won't stop the lightning bolts.

 

[cosermann]

...I agree that criminals probably think of churches as no gun zones ...

Well, I don't know. In some cases maybe; especially in states where places of worship are GFZs, or GFZs unless you have permission. Otherwise, from the cases I've looked at . . .

It's an individual looking for revenge on a person and church happens to simply be a known place/time where the target will be. (Similar incidents happen in a work setting, that is, the perp knows when/where the victim will be.)

Other times it's a "hater" or disgruntled person with a personal beef against religion, or a particular congregation in general.

Not saying the situations above aren't criminal (they are), but it's not typically a situation where someone is just wanting to kill random people. It seems malls, schools, and movie theaters are just as suitable if that's the purpose, and more convenient for perps since they have more/longer "business hours."

 

[RAP]

Anyone carry at church? It seems like OCing with a button down and slacks is far less likely to arouse concern than OCing with overalls or ratty work clothes.

Still, it *is* church. Might some feel it disrespectful?


Seems to me that if you have a large group of people in one place (especially people known to be hated by some), then a BG might consider that a "target-rich" environment?

Thoughts?


H

I have been thinking about carrying a gun for about a year now, so in January 2013 I applied. Some of the things that I considered heavily was where and how, the two main areas of my life that came up was at work ( I own a Handyman Company) and Church. I have talked to many people that carry and I seem to get the same answer of NO when it comes to church. My feelings are anyone can be in danger at anytime any place and I also agree with that I don't want to cause any significant disturbance with a gun present.
So my question is - What Do You Carry and Where Do you Carry it On You?

 

[CitiusFortius]

Guess I'll toss my into the ring. Like others, I dont OC at church. Our senior pastor has deer heads on his wall and I go camping and shooting with the associate pastor all the time.

It's not so much an issue of people getting angry so much as it is a distraction. If somebody was oc'ing and sitting in front of me, I would find it difficult to focus as my mind would wander to "I've heard such and such gun is great, wonder if...."

But we will all act according to our own convictions. I assume I can give a Christian response since to poster brought it up, but just pray about it and seek advice from elders and pastors within the church if you're still not sure.

 

[FireBirdDS]

I CC at church definitely for both the purposes of not being a distraction to my brothers and sisters in Christ, and that it is not a situation that warrants the need for my piece to be that accessible. I'm happy to have it on me but I'm not likely to be that surprised by a would-be gunman that i would lack the time needed to reach my pistol.

I honestly don't see why some people divide themselves into their OC and CC camps exclusively. I pick and choose which places I OC and which places I CC. I always have both my OWB and IWB holsters with me so I can change to the appropriate one for any given situation.

 

[ModernGunner]

My only 'complaint' with carrying at Church (OC or CC) is just the idea that it seems like a Church would be, at least, the ONE place where you wouldn't NEED to carry, right?

Alas, that's not the reality of our society today, so I have zero issue with someone carrying at Church. But, I still prefer to maintain my 'blind vision' that a Church would be, perhaps, the ONE place that even BG's would respect. "Hope springs eternal", LOL...

 

[Jack Burton]

Mark sez: RIGHT OR WRONG, I don't want my weapon to be the cause of another person losing his focus or recollection that he may only enjoy during that brief hour during the week

Jack replies: Mark, I think that the Apostle Paul said it best in in 1st Corinthians 10:23...

"I have the right to do anything," you say--but not everything is beneficial. "I have the right to do anything"--but not everything is constructive."

This was in response to another, side issue that the early church was struggling with as to whether or not it was acceptable for Christians to participate in.

As a note, my church has several police officers who attend in uniform. They have the permission of their dept to skip out of 90 minutes of duty when they have a Sunday morning shift to come to church, which means they walk in carrying their Glocks. No one even turns a head at them. I can see that perhaps over the years there might have been one or two, or even more, people who felt uncomfortable with that but if so they have either kept it to themselves or left.

We generally do not let the "weaker brother" determine the church policy.