Officers of the United States: Neither the President nor Vice President are Officers of the United States

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  • JAL

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    Officer of the United States:
    Why neither the President nor Vice President are “Officers of the United States”
    What is one and how does a person become one? There is an immense amount of misinformation and disinformation about this as it falls under Section 3 of the 14th Amendment covering disqualification from holding elected or appointed offices in the United States. The lies claiming the President is an "Officer of the United States" have become endless, twisting legal and constitutional definitions into entangled spaghetti bowls of convoluted, alleged logic to justify their predetermined conclusions.

    The United States is a Sovereign State with all the internationally recognized powers and responsibilities of a Sovereign State. As a Sovereign State, it is not subject to rule or governance by any other Sovereign State. It is its own entity, entitled to make its own decisions and to act on its own as it sees fit to do so. Should it do something dastardly, such as commit War Crimes, its leadership and those involved in such acts can eventually be held accountable by international standards. As a Sovereign State the United States actually has Dual Sovereignty. Each state within the United States has its own, albeit limited, Sovereignty and Sovereign powers. Primarily under the 10th Amendment, as now limited by Equal Protections portions of the 14th Amendment, those Sovereign Powers not retained by the U.S. Constitution for the Federal Government are Sovereign Powers of each state. Beyond stating that a person can be tried for the same crime in both a Federal and a State Court (big surprise to some defendants) I won’t dive into the Dual Sovereignty further. It's not relevant here.

    As a Sovereign State, it has two Sovereigns, a President and a Vice President, with their Sovereign Powers enumerated in Article II of the Constitution. The President, in Section 1, Clause 1, is vested with powers of being the Executive. In other words, the President is the nation’s Head of State. The President’s Oath of Office is specifically enumerated in Section 1, Clause 8, and it is unique. Other Oaths of Office may have some similarity, but they are distinctly different and they are not enumerated in the Constitution.

    Article II, Section 2 enumerates their powers. Clause 2 empowers the President to make appointments to various Offices within the Executive Branch and to the Article III Courts, with the Advice and Consent of the U.S. Senate approving them. After enumerating specific Federal Offices, the clause continues with:
    “ . . . and all other Officers of the United States, whose Appointments are not herein otherwise provided for, and which shall be established by Law . . .”

    The President appoints “Officers of the United States”, with confirmation of such appointments made by the Senate. This is in keeping with the generally recognized international concept of someone being an “Officer of [fill in name of Sovereign State]”. The Sovereign delegates a portion of his Sovereign Powers to a person appointed to carry them out on his behalf. That delegation is nearly always embodied in a Commission from the Sovereign, or an equivalent document. In addition, that individual is limited to exercising only those Sovereign Powers specifically delegated. Section 3 specifically requires the President to Commission all "Officers of the United States" with a Commission document. This requirement is so there is no confusion or ambiguity as to whether a person is or is not an "Officer of the United States". This is a Magisterial Duty, not a Discretionary one. It is required to be executed. The President and Vice President do not appoint themselves, delegate Sovereign Powers to themselves, or Commission themselves with Sovereign Powers that they already possess as Sovereigns per the Constitution. It would be incongruous, illogical and ludicrous for a Sovereign President to delegate his own Sovereign Powers to himself self-referentially, and issue a Commission to himself as constitutionally required, and taking an additional Commissioning Oath, to act on his own behalf, with the Senate having to confirm it. Thus, neither the President, nor the Vice President are “Officers of the United States” by the definition of what constitutes one in Article II, Section 2, Clause 2 of the Constitution, and how one becomes an Officer of the United States by Presidential Appointment with “Advice and Consent” of the Senate (i.e. Senate Confirmation). An Officer of the United States attempting to overstep the Sovereign Powers delegated to them is patently illegal, and an excellent way under some circumstances to end up in prison. Both the President and Vice President are "Sovereigns" with "Sovereign Powers" as enumerated, and are not "Officers of the United States".

    I am an “Officer of the United States” and will be to the day I die. A Retired Commissioned Officer retains the duties and responsibilities of an Officer of the United States for life, and continues to be subject to the Uniform Code of Military Justice (UCMJ) for life. Charges under the UCMJ are exceptionally rare. They’re usually pursued by a Federal Prosecutor in a Federal Court, but a few have been charged and tried under the UCMJ over the years. I repeatedly had the knife and fork training about what is and is not an “Officer of the United States” and the limits of the Sovereign Powers delegated to me by the President to act on his behalf within the Armed Forces (deriving from the President’s Sovereign Power as Commander in Chief of the U.S. Armed Forces). It was required content in every service school I attended over the years. Warrant Officers (W-1 Grade), Non-Commissioned Officers, and Enlisted Personnel do not have those delegated powers as outlined (primarily) in Title 10 of the United States Code. My Commission delegating those Sovereign Powers to me was issued and signed by the President of the United States. My appointment to each rank was confirmed by the U.S. Senate.

    One need not consider whether or not January 6th 2021 was a riot or an insurrection, or whether the President incited it, or whether the 14th Amendment is "Self Executing" absent a Congressional Act or a Federal Judicial Judgement. Application of the 14th Amendment to a former President or Vice President fails and is completely mooted by the fact the President and Vice President are Sovereigns, not "Officers of the United States" or any other appointed or elected individual enumerated within the Disqualification Clause of the 14th Amendment. Note that Joe Biden was a U.S. Senator for many years. As such, he is subject to the Disqualification Clause of the 14th Amendment. One could argue endlessly about whether he's disqualified from office, and I won't do that here. It would not be fruitful to the purpose of this posting.
     

    KG1

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    "The United States is a Sovereign State"

    Tell this to Biden. How can you have a Sovereign State with open borders? One of the responsibilities of the head of a Sovereign State is to secure the border and enforce immigration laws.

    I'm going to continue to try reading the rest of the post now....
     
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    foszoe

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    "The United States is a Sovereign State"

    Tell this to Biden. How can you have a Sovereign State with open borders? One of the responsibilities of the head of a Sovereign State is to secure the border and enforce immigration laws.

    I'm going to continue to try reading the rest of the post now....
    You are a true American speak first listen later!

    Lucky for me, i was watching the cotton bowl when I read it
     

    KG1

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    You are a true American speak first listen later!

    Lucky for me, i was watching the cotton bowl when I read it
    It's just like opinions on Ingo. Give an opinion first without reading beyond a headline or waiting until the whole story develops.
     

    KLB

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    Interesting take. I'm guessing since the was no President or Vice President on the Rebel side, they didn't think to include them.
     

    foszoe

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    Still reading.....
    Good luck and I want you to know I am cheering you on!!!

    After I realized JAL was retired military I was too grateful for that I forgot what I was reading.

    Kliff Notes when you are done in 6th grade reading level please.
     
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    KG1

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    Good luck and I want you to know I am cheering you on!!!

    After I realized JAL was retired military I was too grateful for that I forgot what I was reading.

    Kliff Notes when you are done in 6th grade reading level please.
    I was never a voracious reader. My brother was. Maybe I should get him to read this to me like story time.
     

    foszoe

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    I was never a voracious reader. My brother was. Maybe I should get him to read this to me like story time.
    I used to be. Didn't have a TV in the house until 1987. Continued to read a lot until 2006. Bought a house with some land, got married. Quit reading near as much. Wife is a TVaholic. At any given time there are 10 shows recording to the DVR cloud. Now I watch a lot of sports. In the last couple of years or so, I started reading again. I can't read as fast as I used to, but I am ramping up.

    I don't think that I have read a single multi-paragraph Jamil post yet. Not from lack of trying. I just ain't intellectual enough to keep up with him. Or Bug and Mike for that matter. Just ask them :)
     
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    Malware

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    Officer of the United States:
    Why neither the President nor Vice President are “Officers of the United States”
    What is one and how does a person become one? There is an immense amount of misinformation and disinformation about this as it falls under Section 3 of the 14th Amendment covering disqualification from holding elected or appointed offices in the United States. The lies claiming the President is an "Officer of the United States" have become endless, twisting legal and constitutional definitions into entangled spaghetti bowls of convoluted, alleged logic to justify their predetermined conclusions.

    The United States is a Sovereign State with all the internationally recognized powers and responsibilities of a Sovereign State. As a Sovereign State, it is not subject to rule or governance by any other Sovereign State. It is its own entity, entitled to make its own decisions and to act on its own as it sees fit to do so. Should it do something dastardly, such as commit War Crimes, its leadership and those involved in such acts can eventually be held accountable by international standards. As a Sovereign State the United States actually has Dual Sovereignty. Each state within the United States has its own, albeit limited, Sovereignty and Sovereign powers. Primarily under the 10th Amendment, as now limited by Equal Protections portions of the 14th Amendment, those Sovereign Powers not retained by the U.S. Constitution for the Federal Government are Sovereign Powers of each state. Beyond stating that a person can be tried for the same crime in both a Federal and a State Court (big surprise to some defendants) I won’t dive into the Dual Sovereignty further. It's not relevant here.

    As a Sovereign State, it has two Sovereigns, a President and a Vice President, with their Sovereign Powers enumerated in Article II of the Constitution. The President, in Section 1, Clause 1, is vested with powers of being the Executive. In other words, the President is the nation’s Head of State. The President’s Oath of Office is specifically enumerated in Section 1, Clause 8, and it is unique. Other Oaths of Office may have some similarity, but they are distinctly different and they are not enumerated in the Constitution.

    Article II, Section 2 enumerates their powers. Clause 2 empowers the President to make appointments to various Offices within the Executive Branch and to the Article III Courts, with the Advice and Consent of the U.S. Senate approving them. After enumerating specific Federal Offices, the clause continues with:
    “ . . . and all other Officers of the United States, whose Appointments are not herein otherwise provided for, and which shall be established by Law . . .”

    The President appoints “Officers of the United States”, with confirmation of such appointments made by the Senate. This is in keeping with the generally recognized international concept of someone being an “Officer of [fill in name of Sovereign State]”. The Sovereign delegates a portion of his Sovereign Powers to a person appointed to carry them out on his behalf. That delegation is nearly always embodied in a Commission from the Sovereign, or an equivalent document. In addition, that individual is limited to exercising only those Sovereign Powers specifically delegated. Section 3 specifically requires the President to Commission all "Officers of the United States" with a Commission document. This requirement is so there is no confusion or ambiguity as to whether a person is or is not an "Officer of the United States". This is a Magisterial Duty, not a Discretionary one. It is required to be executed. The President and Vice President do not appoint themselves, delegate Sovereign Powers to themselves, or Commission themselves with Sovereign Powers that they already possess as Sovereigns per the Constitution. It would be incongruous, illogical and ludicrous for a Sovereign President to delegate his own Sovereign Powers to himself self-referentially, and issue a Commission to himself as constitutionally required, and taking an additional Commissioning Oath, to act on his own behalf, with the Senate having to confirm it. Thus, neither the President, nor the Vice President are “Officers of the United States” by the definition of what constitutes one in Article II, Section 2, Clause 2 of the Constitution, and how one becomes an Officer of the United States by Presidential Appointment with “Advice and Consent” of the Senate (i.e. Senate Confirmation). An Officer of the United States attempting to overstep the Sovereign Powers delegated to them is patently illegal, and an excellent way under some circumstances to end up in prison. Both the President and Vice President are "Sovereigns" with "Sovereign Powers" as enumerated, and are not "Officers of the United States".

    I am an “Officer of the United States” and will be to the day I die. A Retired Commissioned Officer retains the duties and responsibilities of an Officer of the United States for life, and continues to be subject to the Uniform Code of Military Justice (UCMJ) for life. Charges under the UCMJ are exceptionally rare. They’re usually pursued by a Federal Prosecutor in a Federal Court, but a few have been charged and tried under the UCMJ over the years. I repeatedly had the knife and fork training about what is and is not an “Officer of the United States” and the limits of the Sovereign Powers delegated to me by the President to act on his behalf within the Armed Forces (deriving from the President’s Sovereign Power as Commander in Chief of the U.S. Armed Forces). It was required content in every service school I attended over the years. Warrant Officers (W-1 Grade), Non-Commissioned Officers, and Enlisted Personnel do not have those delegated powers as outlined (primarily) in Title 10 of the United States Code. My Commission delegating those Sovereign Powers to me was issued and signed by the President of the United States. My appointment to each rank was confirmed by the U.S. Senate.

    One need not consider whether or not January 6th 2021 was a riot or an insurrection, or whether the President incited it, or whether the 14th Amendment is "Self Executing" absent a Congressional Act or a Federal Judicial Judgement. Application of the 14th Amendment to a former President or Vice President fails and is completely mooted by the fact the President and Vice President are Sovereigns, not "Officers of the United States" or any other appointed or elected individual enumerated within the Disqualification Clause of the 14th Amendment. Note that Joe Biden was a U.S. Senator for many years. As such, he is subject to the Disqualification Clause of the 14th Amendment. One could argue endlessly about whether he's disqualified from office, and I won't do that here. It would not be fruitful to the purpose of this posting.
    Thank you for your service, reading this gives me a headache this early in the morning
     

    KG1

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    I used to be. Didn't have a TV in the house until 1987. Continued to read a lot until 2006. Bought a house with some land, got married. Quit reading near as much. Wife is a TVaholic. At any given time there are 10 shows recording to the DVR cloud. Now I watch a lot of sports. In the last couple of years or so, I started reading again. I can't read as fast as I used to, but I am ramping up.

    I don't think that I have read a single multi-paragraph Jamil post yet. Not from lack of trying. I just ain't intellectual enough to keep up with him. Or Bug and Mike for that matter. Just ask them :)
    You mean that you aren't a "credentialed" Valedictorian without the intellect to keep up with them?
     

    KG1

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    All kidding aside. Finally got to this part.

    "I am an “Officer of the United States” and will be to the day I die. A Retired Commissioned Officer retains the duties and responsibilities of an Officer of the United States for life, and continues to be subject to the Uniform Code of Military Justice (UCMJ) for life.

    Thank you for your service JAL and for your lifetime commitment to living up to the standards of conduct that are required.

    Outstanding. :patriot:
     

    foszoe

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    You mean that you aren't a "credentialed" Valedictorian without the intellect to keep up with them?
    I was close. But sadly no. Until my last semester, I was. My Grandfather was a Marine who was in the Pacific in WWII. While fighting he met and became friends with the guy who would become the president of the Marshall Islands. When us grandkids got old enough to graduate, he would take us to Hawaii for 3 weeks. He and grandma would leave us on the beach and go stay in the presidential palace on the Marshall Islands for a week and leave us alone in Hawaii.

    So I was Valedictorian until my last semester when it was my turn to go to Hawaii. I was granted special dispensation to go based on my grades and character as long as I kept up with my school work. I flunked Calculus that semester and dropped from 1st to 3rd in my class.

    Now I am left to wonder what would have become of my life if I had earned my credential. Probably wouldn't be posting on INGO. Probably be what most people would call a success. It was the beginning of the demise of my value to the human race.

    I tried to make up a credential. Tertidictorian. Sadly that too failed as it got shortened to Terd. Which is a great one word summation of my life's work.
     

    KG1

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    I was close. But sadly no. Until my last semester, I was. My Grandfather was a Marine who was in the Pacific in WWII. While fighting he met and became friends with the guy who would become the president of the Marshall Islands. When us grandkids got old enough to graduate, he would take us to Hawaii for 3 weeks. He and grandma would leave us on the beach and go stay in the presidential palace on the Marshall Islands for a week and leave us alone in Hawaii.

    So I was Valedictorian until my last semester when it was my turn to go to Hawaii. I was granted special dispensation to go based on my grades and character as long as I kept up with my school work. I flunked Calculus that semester and dropped from 1st to 3rd in my class.

    Now I am left to wonder what would have become of my life if I had earned my credential. Probably wouldn't be posting on INGO. Probably be what most people would call a success. It was the beginning of the demise of my value to the human race.

    I tried to make up a credential. Tertidictorian. Sadly that too failed as it got shortened to Terd. Which is a great one word summation of my life's work.
    Cool story bro.
     

    Ingomike

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    Officer of the United States:
    Why neither the President nor Vice President are “Officers of the United States”
    What is one and how does a person become one? There is an immense amount of misinformation and disinformation about this as it falls under Section 3 of the 14th Amendment covering disqualification from holding elected or appointed offices in the United States. The lies claiming the President is an "Officer of the United States" have become endless, twisting legal and constitutional definitions into entangled spaghetti bowls of convoluted, alleged logic to justify their predetermined conclusions.

    The United States is a Sovereign State with all the internationally recognized powers and responsibilities of a Sovereign State. As a Sovereign State, it is not subject to rule or governance by any other Sovereign State. It is its own entity, entitled to make its own decisions and to act on its own as it sees fit to do so. Should it do something dastardly, such as commit War Crimes, its leadership and those involved in such acts can eventually be held accountable by international standards. As a Sovereign State the United States actually has Dual Sovereignty. Each state within the United States has its own, albeit limited, Sovereignty and Sovereign powers. Primarily under the 10th Amendment, as now limited by Equal Protections portions of the 14th Amendment, those Sovereign Powers not retained by the U.S. Constitution for the Federal Government are Sovereign Powers of each state. Beyond stating that a person can be tried for the same crime in both a Federal and a State Court (big surprise to some defendants) I won’t dive into the Dual Sovereignty further. It's not relevant here.

    As a Sovereign State, it has two Sovereigns, a President and a Vice President, with their Sovereign Powers enumerated in Article II of the Constitution. The President, in Section 1, Clause 1, is vested with powers of being the Executive. In other words, the President is the nation’s Head of State. The President’s Oath of Office is specifically enumerated in Section 1, Clause 8, and it is unique. Other Oaths of Office may have some similarity, but they are distinctly different and they are not enumerated in the Constitution.

    Article II, Section 2 enumerates their powers. Clause 2 empowers the President to make appointments to various Offices within the Executive Branch and to the Article III Courts, with the Advice and Consent of the U.S. Senate approving them. After enumerating specific Federal Offices, the clause continues with:
    “ . . . and all other Officers of the United States, whose Appointments are not herein otherwise provided for, and which shall be established by Law . . .”

    The President appoints “Officers of the United States”, with confirmation of such appointments made by the Senate. This is in keeping with the generally recognized international concept of someone being an “Officer of [fill in name of Sovereign State]”. The Sovereign delegates a portion of his Sovereign Powers to a person appointed to carry them out on his behalf. That delegation is nearly always embodied in a Commission from the Sovereign, or an equivalent document. In addition, that individual is limited to exercising only those Sovereign Powers specifically delegated. Section 3 specifically requires the President to Commission all "Officers of the United States" with a Commission document. This requirement is so there is no confusion or ambiguity as to whether a person is or is not an "Officer of the United States". This is a Magisterial Duty, not a Discretionary one. It is required to be executed. The President and Vice President do not appoint themselves, delegate Sovereign Powers to themselves, or Commission themselves with Sovereign Powers that they already possess as Sovereigns per the Constitution. It would be incongruous, illogical and ludicrous for a Sovereign President to delegate his own Sovereign Powers to himself self-referentially, and issue a Commission to himself as constitutionally required, and taking an additional Commissioning Oath, to act on his own behalf, with the Senate having to confirm it. Thus, neither the President, nor the Vice President are “Officers of the United States” by the definition of what constitutes one in Article II, Section 2, Clause 2 of the Constitution, and how one becomes an Officer of the United States by Presidential Appointment with “Advice and Consent” of the Senate (i.e. Senate Confirmation). An Officer of the United States attempting to overstep the Sovereign Powers delegated to them is patently illegal, and an excellent way under some circumstances to end up in prison. Both the President and Vice President are "Sovereigns" with "Sovereign Powers" as enumerated, and are not "Officers of the United States".

    I am an “Officer of the United States” and will be to the day I die. A Retired Commissioned Officer retains the duties and responsibilities of an Officer of the United States for life, and continues to be subject to the Uniform Code of Military Justice (UCMJ) for life. Charges under the UCMJ are exceptionally rare. They’re usually pursued by a Federal Prosecutor in a Federal Court, but a few have been charged and tried under the UCMJ over the years. I repeatedly had the knife and fork training about what is and is not an “Officer of the United States” and the limits of the Sovereign Powers delegated to me by the President to act on his behalf within the Armed Forces (deriving from the President’s Sovereign Power as Commander in Chief of the U.S. Armed Forces). It was required content in every service school I attended over the years. Warrant Officers (W-1 Grade), Non-Commissioned Officers, and Enlisted Personnel do not have those delegated powers as outlined (primarily) in Title 10 of the United States Code. My Commission delegating those Sovereign Powers to me was issued and signed by the President of the United States. My appointment to each rank was confirmed by the U.S. Senate.

    One need not consider whether or not January 6th 2021 was a riot or an insurrection, or whether the President incited it, or whether the 14th Amendment is "Self Executing" absent a Congressional Act or a Federal Judicial Judgement. Application of the 14th Amendment to a former President or Vice President fails and is completely mooted by the fact the President and Vice President are Sovereigns, not "Officers of the United States" or any other appointed or elected individual enumerated within the Disqualification Clause of the 14th Amendment. Note that Joe Biden was a U.S. Senator for many years. As such, he is subject to the Disqualification Clause of the 14th Amendment. One could argue endlessly about whether he's disqualified from office, and I won't do that here. It would not be fruitful to the purpose of this posting.
    Great explanation. The majority here do not believe in Presidential Sovereignty.

    People need to understand this for many reasons, one is listed in the last paragraph. This is another:

    As a Sovereign the President has all authority over the documents of his administration. As such, he can classify, declassify, and make personal any and all documents. The procedures for designating classification, declassification, and personal are completely at the Presidents discretion.

    Neither a congress or a previous President can bind a future President, I do not believe SCOTUS has the power to bind the President in matters related to his Sovereignty, though a disagreement here would equal a constitutional crisis.

    The thing we conservatives need to be mindful of, is the left no longer wants to be bound by the Constitution, so while conservatives are binding themselves to the limits of the Constitution the left is running over them. We were given a republic if we can keep it…
     

    KG1

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    Great explanation. The majority here do not believe in Presidential Sovereignty.

    People need to understand this for many reasons, one is listed in the last paragraph. This is another:

    As a Sovereign the President has all authority over the documents of his administration. As such, he can classify, declassify, and make personal any and all documents. The procedures for designating classification, declassification, and personal are completely at the Presidents discretion.

    Neither a congress or a previous President can bind a future President, I do not believe SCOTUS has the power to bind the President in matters related to his Sovereignty, though a disagreement here would equal a constitutional crisis.

    The thing we conservatives need to be mindful of, is the left no longer wants to be bound by the Constitution, so while conservatives are binding themselves to the limits of the Constitution the left is running over them. We were given a republic if we can keep it…
    Points for bringing that document argument to attention again. :):
     
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