Oklahoma Banning "Unofficial Militias"

[mk2ja]

Recruiting membership in an unauthorized militia or the Ku Klux Klan would be a crime if legislation approved Thursday by the House of Representatives becomes law.

"This is making unauthorized militias illegal,” said Rep. Mike Shelton, the amendment’s author.

...

"...While I agree that gangs are terrorizing many communities, they are not the only such threat in our state,” said Shelton, D-Oklahoma City.

"In Oklahoma, we have seen the damage done by militia fanatics,” said Shelton, referring to the truck bombing 15 years ago of the Alfred P. Murrah Federal Building in Oklahoma City. "The Ku Klux Klan has a long history of violence and domestic terrorism,” he said.

"Involvement in those types of organizations should be treated no differently than participation in an urban gang.”

SB 2018 passed 98-1. It now goes to the Senate.

Seems like somebody missed the point of having a militia in the first place! Not every "military" body should be under government control; that's the whole idea!

But it does seem to reveal the ideals that Shelton has about who exactly should have arms. Why was I not surprised when I saw that the author had a "D" beside his name.

Source: NewsOK

(It is dated 23 April 2010, but I didn't see it in my pre-post search. Sorry if I just missed it.)

 

[Dr Falken]

Just tell them your filming a movie, then you can do all the "training" that you want for your "film" called "Red Dawn 2, Attack of the Zombies".

 

[eldirector]

A few snippets from their Constitution. Nothing seems to dis-allow this! Of course, it isn't really a militia. It is more like a group of friends doing some coordinated hunting.

Section II-26: Bearing arms - Carrying weapons.

The right of a citizen to keep and bear arms in defense of his
home, person, or property, or in aid of the civil power, when
thereunto legally summoned, shall never be prohibited; but
nothing herein contained shall prevent the Legislature from
regulating the carrying of weapons.

[FONT=&quot]SECTION V‑40[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Militia.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]The Legislature shall provide for organizing, disciplining, arming, maintaining, and equipping the Militia of the State.

[/FONT] [FONT=&quot]SECTION VI‑6[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Commander‑in‑Chief of militia ‑ Calling out militia.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]The Governor shall be Commander‑in‑Chief of the militia of the State, except when in service of the United States, and may call out the same to execute the laws, protect the public health, suppress insurrection, and repel invasion.[/FONT]

 

[JBusch8899]

Okay, lets say that OK bans the militias. What are the alternatives?

Civilian defense corps? (Wasn't that BHO's idea?)

Gun and camping social club?

Survival lodge?

Wannabe cop post?

If they wish to ban all the above, then I guess the Elks, Moose, Freemasons, Eagles, Orioles, Boy and Girl Scouts, etc. are next.

 

[Expat]

How do they get around the Freedom of Association that the SCOTUS has rules is an integral part of Freedom of Speech and Assembly... ah I forgot. The Constitution and Bill of Rights are no longer valid.

 

[CulpeperMM]

seems to abridge the the right of the people to to peaceably assemble.

here is the subsection of the bill in question

F. “Criminal street gang” means any ongoing organization, association, or group of five or more persons including, but not limited to, the Christian Knights of the Ku Klux Klan, Knights of the Ku Klux Klan, Aryan Brotherhood and any independent military organization that is neither recognized nor authorized by the Commander in Chief of the Militia for the State of Oklahoma, that specifically either promotes, sponsors, or assists in, or participates in, and requires as a condition of membership or continued membership, the commission of one or more of the following criminal acts:
1. Assault, battery, or assault and battery with a deadly weapon, as defined in Section 645 of this title;
2. Aggravated assault and battery as defined by Section 646 of this title;
3. Robbery by force or fear, as defined in Sections 791 through 797 of this title;
4. Robbery or attempted robbery with a dangerous weapon or imitation firearm, as defined by Section 801 of this title;
5. Unlawful homicide or manslaughter, as defined in Sections 691 through 722 of this title;
6. The sale, possession for sale, transportation, manufacture, offer for sale, or offer to manufacture controlled dangerous substances, as defined in Section 2-101 et seq. of Title 63 of the Oklahoma Statutes;
7. Trafficking in illegal drugs, as provided for in the Trafficking in Illegal Drugs Act, Section 2-414 of Title 63 of the Oklahoma Statutes;
8. Arson, as defined in Sections 1401 through 1403 of this title;
9. The influence or intimidation of witnesses and jurors, as defined in Sections 388, 455 and 545 of this title;
10. Theft of any vehicle, as described in Section 1720 of this title;
11. Rape, as defined in Section 1111 of this title;
12. Extortion, as defined in Section 1481 of this title;
13. Transporting a loaded firearm in a motor vehicle, in violation of Section 1289.13 of this title;
14. Transporting a weapon in, or discharging a weapon from, a boat, in violation of Section 1289.14 of this title;
15. Possession of a concealed weapon, as defined by Section 1289.8 of this title; or
16. 15. Shooting or discharging a firearm, as defined by Section 652 of this title.

i'm not familier with OK law but parts 13, 14, 15 & 16 of this little gem seem to be problematic.
since when is it illegal to promote or sponsor shooting and transporting firearms lawfully?

maybe fletch will set us straight on these provisions.

 

[Liberty Sanders]

This law won't pass constitutional muster.

 

[AndersonIN]

Of course it won't pass constitional muster! This law would also ban UNIONS!!!

 

[E5RANGER375]

while id love to see a group like the KKK go AWAY just for the simple fact that they give white people a bad name, amongst other obvious reasons. but they still have rights under the constitution. this bill is un-constitutional, no doubt about it. does it suprise me it came out of OK???? NOT ONE BIT!!! them folks out there are a lot of weirdos!!! probly try to pass a bill for no sex before marriage too if they could get away with it.

its always sad to see several states take a step foreward and then one take 2 steps backwards.

 

[AndersonIN]

while id love to see a group like the KKK go AWAY just for the simple fact that they give white people a bad name, amongst other obvious reasons. but they still have rights under the constitution. this bill is un-constitutional, no doubt about it. does it suprise me it came out of OK???? NOT ONE BIT!!! them folks out there are a lot of weirdos!!! probly try to pass a bill for no sex before marriage too if they could get away with it.

its always sad to see several states take a step foreward and then one take 2 steps backwards.

My wife said the already passed that law except it pretained to AFTER MARRIAGE!!!

 

[JBusch8899]

On the surface, it seems that the vast majority of the intend of the bill, only outlaws those things which are already illegal.

It's already illegal to use commit the mentioned crimes, or utilize a weapon for a crime; and RICO and other conspiracy type laws, already address organized criminal activities.

It seems that the only other intent of the bill, is to make it easier for the government to define, demonize, and criminalize any person's association to any group. By the wording, it appears that two individuals belonging to any type of organized association and engaged in the stated unlawful activities, could criminalize the entire, said organization.

 

[Bill of Rights]

I don't see a problem with this at this point.

F. “Criminal street gang” means any ongoing organization, association, or group of five or more persons including, but not limited to, the Christian Knights of the Ku Klux Klan, Knights of the Ku Klux Klan, Aryan Brotherhood and any independent military organization that is neither recognized nor authorized by the Commander in Chief of the Militia for the State of Oklahoma, that specifically either promotes, sponsors, or assists in, or participates in, and requires as a condition of membership or continued membership, the commission of one or more of the following criminal acts:
1. Assault, battery, or assault and battery with a deadly weapon, as defined in Section 645 of this title;
2. Aggravated assault and battery as defined by Section 646 of this title;
3. Robbery by force or fear, as defined in Sections 791 through 797 of this title;
4. Robbery or attempted robbery with a dangerous weapon or imitation firearm, as defined by Section 801 of this title;
5. Unlawful homicide or manslaughter, as defined in Sections 691 through 722 of this title;
6. The sale, possession for sale, transportation, manufacture, offer for sale, or offer to manufacture controlled dangerous substances, as defined in Section 2-101 et seq. of Title 63 of the Oklahoma Statutes;
7. Trafficking in illegal drugs, as provided for in the Trafficking in Illegal Drugs Act, Section 2-414 of Title 63 of the Oklahoma Statutes;
8. Arson, as defined in Sections 1401 through 1403 of this title;
9. The influence or intimidation of witnesses and jurors, as defined in Sections 388, 455 and 545 of this title;
10. Theft of any vehicle, as described in Section 1720 of this title;
11. Rape, as defined in Section 1111 of this title;
12. Extortion, as defined in Section 1481 of this title;
13. Transporting a loaded firearm in a motor vehicle, in violation of Section 1289.13 of this title;
14. Transporting a weapon in, or discharging a weapon from, a boat, in violation of Section 1289.14 of this title;
15. Possession of a concealed weapon, as defined by Section 1289.8 of this title; or
16. 15. Shooting or discharging a firearm, as defined by Section 652 of this title.

§21-652. Shooting or discharging firearm with intent to kill - Use of vehicle to facilitate discharge of weapon in conscious disregard of safety of others - Assault and battery with deadly weapon, etc.[/font]
A. Every person who intentionally and wrongfully shoots another with or discharges any kind of firearm, with intent to kill any person, including an unborn child as defined in Section 1-730 of Title 63 of the Oklahoma Statutes, shall upon conviction be guilty of a felony punishable by imprisonment in the State Penitentiary not exceeding life.
B. Every person who uses any vehicle to facilitate the intentional discharge of any kind of firearm, crossbow or other weapon in conscious disregard for the safety of any other person or persons, including an unborn child as defined in Section 1-730 of Title 63 of the Oklahoma Statutes, shall upon conviction be guilty of a felony punishable by imprisonment in the custody of the Department of Corrections for a term not less than two (2) years nor exceeding life.
C. Any person who commits any assault and battery upon another, including an unborn child as defined in Section 1-730 of Title 63 of the Oklahoma Statutes, by means of any deadly weapon, or by such other means or force as is likely to produce death, or in any manner attempts to kill another, including an unborn child as defined in Section 1-730 of Title 63 of the Oklahoma Statutes, or in resisting the execution of any legal process, shall upon conviction be guilty of a felony punishable by imprisonment in the State Penitentiary not exceeding life.

D. The provisions of this section shall not apply to:
1. Acts which cause the death of an unborn child if those acts were committed during a legal abortion to which the pregnant woman consented; or
2. Acts which are committed pursuant to usual and customary standards of medical practice during diagnostic testing or therapeutic treatment.
E. Under no circumstances shall the mother of the unborn child be prosecuted for causing the death of the unborn child unless the mother has committed a crime that caused the death of the unborn child.

§21-1289.8. Carrying concealed weapon.
CARRYING CONCEALED WEAPON
A. Any fire marshal inspector who is retired, state, county, or municipal peace officer of this state who is retired, or any state, county, or municipal peace officer classified as a reserve who is retired, or any federal law enforcement officer who is retired may retain their status as a peace officer, retired, in the State of Oklahoma, and as such may carry a concealed pistol pursuant to the provisions of subsection B of this section. A retired state, county, or municipal peace officer may in times of great emergency or danger serve to enforce the law, keep the peace, or to protect the public in keeping with their availability and ability at the request of the Governor, the sheriff, or the mayor of their retirement jurisdiction. If a retired fire marshal is activated for duty, the peace officer powers of the retired fire marshal are limited to the duties granted prior to retirement.
B. The Council on Law Enforcement Education and Training (CLEET) shall issue an identification card to eligible retired federal, state, county and municipal peace officers which authorizes the retired peace officer to carry a concealed pistol in this state. The identification card shall bear the full name of the retired officer, the signature of the retired officer, the date of issuance, and such other information as may be deemed appropriate by CLEET. The card shall not expire, but may be denied, suspended, or revoked as provided by the rules promulgated by CLEET or upon the discovery of any preclusion prescribed in Section 1290.10 or 1290.11 of this title. The Council on Law Enforcement Education and Training shall request the Oklahoma State Bureau of Investigation to conduct a state and national criminal history records search on each retired peace officer authorized to carry a concealed firearm pursuant to the provisions of this section every four (4) years, and unless a preclusion prescribed in Section 1290.10 or 1290.11 of this title is found to exist, no action shall be necessary. When a preclusion is discovered, the Council shall notify the retired peace officer and shall hold a hearing before taking any action to suspend or revoke the authority to carry a concealed pistol.
C. The retired peace officer shall be required to submit the following information to the Council on Law Enforcement Education and Training (CLEET) and any other information requested by CLEET:
1. A statement from the appropriate retirement system verifying the status of the person as a retired peace officer of the jurisdiction or, if the retired peace officer does not participate in a retirement system, a statement from the appropriate law enforcement agency verifying the status of the person as a retired peace officer of that jurisdiction, and the reason why the retired peace officer does not participate in a retirement system;
2. A notarized statement, signed by the retired peace officer, stating that the officer:
a. has not been convicted of and is currently not subject to any pending criminal prosecution for any felony offense, any drug-related offense, aggravated assault and battery, or any offense involving impairment by drugs or alcohol,
b. has not been forced into retirement due to any mental disorder, and
c. has not suffered any injury or any physical or mental impairment which would render the person unsafe to carry a concealed pistol.
D. A retired peace officer, who has made application for the CLEET identification card authorized in subsection B of this section, shall be authorized to carry a concealed firearm as an off-duty peace officer, pursuant to Section 1289.23 of this title, until the authority to carry a concealed firearm as a retired officer is finally approved or denied by CLEET.
E. The Council on Law Enforcement Education and Training shall promulgate rules and procedures necessary to implement the provisions of this section.
F. Any peace officer, retired, who carries any pistol in violation of the provisions of this section shall be deemed to be in violation of Section 1272 of this title and may be prosecuted as provided by law for a violation of that section.

§21-1289.13A. Improper transportation of firearm - Fine and court costs - Confiscation of firearm.
A. Notwithstanding the provisions of Section 1272 or 1289.13 of this title, any person stopped pursuant to a moving traffic violation who is transporting a loaded pistol in the motor vehicle without a valid concealed handgun permit authorized by the Oklahoma Self-Defense Act or valid license from another state, whether the loaded firearm is concealed or open in the vehicle, shall be issued a traffic citation in the amount of Seventy Dollars ($70.00), plus court costs for transporting a firearm improperly. In addition to the traffic citation provided in this section, the person may also be arrested for any other violation of law.
B. When the arresting officer determines that a valid handgun license exists, pursuant to the Oklahoma Self-Defense Act or any provision of law from another state, for any person in the stopped vehicle, any firearms permitted to be carried pursuant to that license shall not be confiscated, unless:
1. The person is arrested for violating another provision of law other than a violation of subsection A of this section; provided, however, if the person is never charged with an offense pursuant to this paragraph or if the charges are dismissed or the person is acquitted, the weapon shall be returned to the person; or
2. The officer has probable cause to believe the weapon is:
a. contraband, or
b. a firearm used in the commission of a crime other than a violation of subsection A of this section.
C. Nothing in this section shall be construed to require confiscation of any firearm.

§21-1289.14. Repealed by Laws 1992, c. 284, § 58, eff. Jan. 1, 1993.

Relevance: “Criminal street gang” means any ongoing organization, association, or group of five or more persons ... that specifically either promotes, sponsors, or assists in, or participates in, and requires as a condition of membership or continued membership, the commission of one or more of the following criminal acts:
(violent crimes)
(drug crimes)
(violent and/or property crimes)
(crimes involving the misuse of firearms)

So, any group that either condones or requires you to be a criminal is a criminal street gang. Sounds like actual militias, that is, those who commit no crimes but only train with their firearms and other equipment in a safe manner not harming any person including those participating, are not covered by this at all.

Usual disclaimers apply: IANAL, IDPOOTV, TINLA

Blessings,
Bill

 

[Joe Williams]

Kinda just tosses the whole 1st Amendment, and freedom to assemble, nuisance right out the window, doesn't it?

 

[Bill of Rights]

On the surface, it seems that the vast majority of the intend of the bill, only outlaws those things which are already illegal.

It's already illegal to use commit the mentioned crimes, or utilize a weapon for a crime; and RICO and other conspiracy type laws, already address organized criminal activities.

It seems that the only other intent of the bill, is to make it easier for the government to define, demonize, and criminalize any person's association to any group. By the wording, it appears that two individuals belonging to any type of organized association and engaged in the stated unlawful activities, could criminalize the entire, said organization.

Explain, please, where you see this? I'm not saying you're wrong, I just don't see anything in there that says it.

Criminal street gang” means any ongoing organization, association, or group of five or more persons ... that specifically either promotes, sponsors, or assists in, or participates in, and requires as a condition of membership or continued membership, the commission of one or more of the following criminal acts ...

I'd not question your statement if the bill said the group accepted those behaviors on the part of their members, but it says the group must specifically promote, sponsor, assist, or participate in, AND must require one to commit one of those listed acts to get (or stay) in the group. I don't see how this fits with your claim. Is it in another section, maybe, that I overlooked?

Blessings,
Bill

 

[BloodEclipse]

I don't see a problem with this at this point.

Relevance: “Criminal street gang” means any ongoing organization, association, or group of five or more persons ... that specifically either promotes, sponsors, or assists in, or participates in, and requires as a condition of membership or continued membership, the commission of one or more of the following criminal acts:
(violent crimes)
(drug crimes)
(violent and/or property crimes)
(crimes involving the misuse of firearms)

So, any group that either condones or requires you to be a criminal is a criminal street gang. Sounds like actual militias, that is, those who commit no crimes but only train with their firearms and other equipment in a safe manner not harming any person including those participating, are not covered by this at all.

Usual disclaimers apply: IANAL, IDPOOTV, TINLA

Blessings,
Bill

I agree but what is the point of this law?

All of those qualifiers are crimes and should be punished accordingly.

So if you happen to be a member of a militia that has one member who goes out and breaks one of these laws, will the entire organization (all members) be in jeopardy because the training is deemed assistance?

 

[Bill of Rights]

I agree but what is the point of this law?

All of those qualifiers are crimes and should be punished accordingly.

So if you happen to be a member of a militia that has one member who goes out and breaks one of these laws, will the entire organization (all members) be in jeopardy because the training is deemed assistance?

If the organization requires you to commit and/or keep committing those crimes, perhaps, but I don't think they would be otherwise.

JMHO.

Blessings,
Bill

 

[evansvillethompsongunner]

Seems like somebody missed the point of having a militia in the first place! Not every "military" body should be under government control; that's the whole idea!

But it does seem to reveal the ideals that Shelton has about who exactly should have arms. Why was I not surprised when I saw that the author had a "D" beside his name.

Source: NewsOK

(It is dated 23 April 2010, but I didn't see it in my pre-post search. Sorry if I just missed it.)

Wow.

Painting members of any 'militia' alongside the KKK?

Some people have no understanding of distinction or intent or creed.

Yup, that's right, just because some people want to be able to defend against the knock on the door, they also hate blacks.

You got it, Gub'Mint. As always, you're so keen on truth.

 

[41mag]

evansvillethompsongunner haven't you learned by now Gub'Mint is not for the most part concerned about the truth it just gets in there way.The same way as the Constitution.

 

[evansvillethompsongunner]

evansvillethompsongunner haven't you learned by now Gub'Mint is not for the most part concerned about the truth it just gets in there way.The same way as the Constitution.

You'd think I'd know by now.
But I guess my sense of continual indignant outrage means I haven't learned what good ol' G.M. would like me to learn.

I have yet to win the struggle over myself: I do not yet love Big Brother.

Nor shall I ever.

Nor shall I, ever.

 

[JBusch8899]

Explain, please, where you see this? I'm not saying you're wrong, I just don't see anything in there that says it.

I'd not question your statement if the bill said the group accepted those behaviors on the part of their members, but it says the group must specifically promote, sponsor, assist, or participate in, AND must require one to commit one of those listed acts to get (or stay) in the group. I don't see how this fits with your claim. Is it in another section, maybe, that I overlooked?

Even a passive knowledge and intent, could result in such a prosecution, if the prosecution can establish a continuing enterprise. There's been a few similar RICO cases.