One LARGE order of S-HOLE coming right up!

[Kutnupe14]

Why is it OK for these people but not others?

Is there a purple version of this:

 

[Que]

Trust me I KNOW you don't care what i think and I wasn't trying to change your mind. We will never agree over the race issue. That's not what my comment was about. It's about a ethnicity identifying term. I use black. If anyone doesn't like it too bad. It's a correct term too according to some and not said in a derogatory way so I use it.
I don't call myself an Irish American with a side of mut, I'm white on official forms (for now). Whenever anyone asks, i say im an American because my ethnicity doesnt define me. Which (white) obviously is a correct term as well.
I believe it's great to celebrate our individualism and history or ancestry when those holidays or times come.

However I am going to start identifying as whatever I feel like. People can marry trees and change sex just cause they feel like it so we all should try and see how ****ed up it gets. I've mentioned this in other, non race or ethnicity label threads so my comment above was not a first time saying that. I just truly get angry at how in every chamce possible race is thrown in Peoples face in this country. Wanna make race a non issue and come together? I do, so we must stop throwing is in faces.

The bigger issue here is innocent women and children are being ethnicly clensed from south Africa by a racist government. We all MUST stand up to this. Everyone talks about how the world governments should have intervened sooner with the Nazis and we talk about how history must never repeat itself and so our governments spend billions of dollars on holocost education and museums ECT ect ECT. But it's happening again right now!!! So no, I don't believe the US should just stand by and do nothing

I didn’t comment about “the bigger issue.” Many people’s nations have been cleansed, stolen, and their history wiped away over the centuries. The only thing they can do is adapt and overcome. No one is going to come to their aid and nobody will care unless it directly affects them. It may not be right, but that’s how the race of humans have chosen to live. I asked a specific member about a matter I may have knowledge about, to bring some clarity. What you may choose to call me, despite what my desire may be, is something I can do nothing about. I’ve been called many things and could do nothing about it, just like you may have experienced. Those people, just like me, will have to remember who they are and embrace it, as others may not choose to see them in any other light beyond their capacity. At some point, the entire matter will no longer be a significant element of their humanity and they must define themselves as they see fit and choose to live on, despite others.

As for the US getting involved, I distinctly remember you posting the “Africa could be turned into a sheet of glass and nobody would care.” Have you had a change of heart about the continent?

 

[jamil]

I've kinda been reluctant to say much in this thread because I'm not sure what thought. But rereading it and thinking about it more I want to comment on several posts. So forgive the serial posts.

I can't speak to how populated SA was, but if true then you are probably right. That still does not exonerate them from the policies they implemented, and benefited from, until 1991. I'm not African, so I'm see no reason why this is any more noteworthy than the plight any other nation on the planet... unless it has a bearing on American interests.

The plight of Western countries is of more interest to me because of what is happening to the Enlightenment values. SA appears to be quite eager to abandon them.

 

[jamil]

So if we bring the Boers here and they attain US citizenship, would that make them African Americans?

Naw, they'll be Afrikaan Americans.

There is really only one question which has a box with the answer "African American", and that is generally a question about race. Personally, I think that's kind of a silly answer. There generally isn't generally a "European American" box for White people. Relatively few American Black people have ever even been to Africa, and can't trace any ancestors to Africa earlier than several generations past. But even more silly, any freshly minted White citizen from Africa knows the meaning of the question, and knows that his race isn't African American. It's not his national origin either. Africa isn't a nation. Saying it is just trying to be cute.

 

[jamil]

i went to college with a guy who was born in Africa, both of his parents were born in Africa, and both of hus grandparents were born in Africa. He attained his US ciizenship and listed his nationality as "African American". IU finally threated to kick him out if he kept claiming to be an "African American", because he was white and not black.

If claiming it means going around saying it, okay. Fine. It's a good funny. But if "goes around claiming" means he checks the "African American" box instead of the "White" box, he's lying. And he knows it. Because that question is about race, not national origin. And once again, Africa isn't a country. And he knows that too. Don't lie on forms to be cute. That's not all that funny.

 

[jamil]

Right. It's not like they're floating out at see on make-shift rafts in imminent threat of death. On the other hand, where's the international outrage? We were able to affect change before by budding into SA's affairs when we saw people being treated unfairly. Wonder why not now?

Western culture should be quite alarmed by this. That they most generally aren't makes those of us who are even more alarmed.

 

[indyartisan]

Why is there a box to check anyway?

 

[churchmouse]

There is really only one question which has a box with the answer "African American", and that is generally a question about race. Personally, I think that's kind of a silly answer. There generally isn't generally a "European American" box for White people. Relatively few American Black people have ever even been to Africa, and can't trace any ancestors to Africa earlier than several generations past. But even more silly, any freshly minted White citizen from Africa knows the meaning of the question, and knows that his race isn't African American. It's not his national origin either. Africa isn't a nation. Saying it is just trying to be cute.

And in this I agree. All of this race thing is getting....well.....you know.
The terrorists in my avatar (as is their older sister) Have a father of color and a white mother. What box do they check. I have never seen a "Mixed" box but if we all look back we are to a point mixed or as "TT" stated, "Mutt". Why is there even a freaking box. A college might feel the need to track where students are from but to fill out a 4473 and see how they break it down is pretty insulting. Besides gender what does it even matter besides tracking for meeting what ever quota is in place at the time. Just my confused personal view.

I feared this thread would stray over to this so now that it is here lets be as civil/kind as possible. SA has been a powder keg of racial strife since it began. There are so many reasons/issues for it.

 

[jamil]

If the Native Americas staffed the vast majority of the US Armed Forces and Law Enforcement, I think the time had come to pack your bags.

We both know that can't happen. And for the sake of argument, let's say that they were staffed in the military and LE in those proportions. You act as if they're homogeneously bent on taking their land back, and the only thing preventing it now is having the military might to do it.

They don't need the military to do it. They only need what SA has, and that's a willing mob. Of course, here, it would also take a [STRIKE]Stalin[/STRIKE] charismatic leader, to convince enough of the [STRIKE]proletariat[/STRIKE] mob that it's necessary to take the land from the [STRIKE]Bourgeois[/STRIKE] land owners.

The idea of talking land back and giving it to the original owners is nonsense. Okay. So you have indigenous people who themselves fought over the land to possess it before White Europeans came over and took it over. The people that the white people took it from. Who did they take it from? How far back must we go to return the land to whomever occupied it first.

And which tribe gets it? Well, I guess we can let them argue over which was there first and who took it from whom.

I liked your earlier answer to whose land is it? I think you said something to the effect, of whoever owns it now. Of course the Black South African mob can just take the land from the White South Africans, and then it's their land. But then it's no longer the progressive Western civilization that overcame Apartheid. And that's what I think is most important about the story. It's a struggle to revert to racial division, not progress.

 

[Kutnupe14]

I've kinda been reluctant to say much in this thread because I'm not sure what thought. But rereading it and thinking about it more I want to comment on several posts. So forgive the serial posts.




The plight of Western countries is of more interest to me because of what is happening to the Enlightenment values. SA appears to be quite eager to abandon them.

"Western countries," have a long established history of playing fast and loose with Enlightenment values. It tends to be situation, place, and person dependent.

 

[Kutnupe14]

We both know that can't happen. And for the sake of argument, let's say that they were staffed in the military and LE in those proportions. You act as if they're homogeneously bent on taking their land back, and the only thing preventing it now is having the military might to do it.

They don't need the military to do it. They only need what SA has, and that's a willing mob. Of course, here, it would also take a [STRIKE]Stalin[/STRIKE] charismatic leader, to convince enough of the [STRIKE]proletariat[/STRIKE] mob that it's necessary to take the land from the [STRIKE]Bourgeois[/STRIKE] land owners.

The idea of talking land back and giving it to the original owners is nonsense. Okay. So you have indigenous people who themselves fought over the land to possess it before White Europeans came over and took it over. The people that the white people took it from. Who did they take it from? How far back must we go to return the land to whomever occupied it first.

And which tribe gets it? Well, I guess we can let them argue over which was there first and who took it from whom.

I liked your earlier answer to whose land is it? I think you said something to the effect, of whoever owns it now. Of course the Black South African mob can just take the land from the White South Africans, and then it's their land. But then it's no longer the progressive Western civilization that overcame Apartheid. And that's what I think is most important about the story. It's a struggle to revert to racial division, not progress.

There are probably a fair amount of Palestinians that agree with the above.

 

[jamil]

And in this I agree. All of this race thing is getting....well.....you know.
The terrorists in my avatar (as is their older sister) Have a father of color and a white mother. What box do they check. I have never seen a "Mixed" box but if we all look back we are to a point mixed or as "TT" stated, "Mutt". Why is there even a freaking box. A college might feel the need to track where students are from but to fill out a 4473 and see how they break it down is pretty insulting. Besides gender what does it even matter besides tracking for meeting what ever quota is in place at the time. Just my confused personal view.

I feared this thread would stray over to this so now that it is here lets be as civil/kind as possible. SA has been a powder keg of racial strife since it began. There are so many reasons/issues for it.

Why isn't there a box for other genetic physical features, like freckles? Why does pigment matter so much? Well. Because it historically has. It'd be nice to progress beyond that need. But that box is important because it currently affords legal and policy standing.

Another silly box to check under "race". "Hispanic" That's not a race. That's a culture that happens to be built mostly around a language. An ethnicity. But it's a box my niece checks because her dad likes bright green colored cars and fuzzy dice hanging from the mirror. I'm kidding about the dice. I'm serious about the car. Back in the late 70s he drove around a bright green Nova. It was absolutely hideous. I gave him some **** about ****ing up a perfectly good Chevy Nova.

 

[jamil]

There are probably a fair amount of Palestinians that agree with the above.

Which part. Who has it now? I doubt that.

If it's the earlier part, yeah, whose land was it? Didn't matter to the Proletariat after they murdered the Bourgeois and took it.

 

[jamil]

Serously though, who owned the land before Israel, before the Palestinians, before them? How far back do you go before you get to the rightful owners?

 

[Kutnupe14]

Which part. Who has it now? I doubt that.

If it's the earlier part, yeah, whose land was it? Didn't matter to the Proletariat after they murdered the Bourgeois and took it.

The idea of talking land back and giving it to the original owners is nonsense.

.

 

[churchmouse]

Why isn't there a box for other genetic physical features, like freckles? Why does pigment matter so much? Well. Because it historically has. It'd be nice to progress beyond that need. But that box is important because it currently affords legal and policy standing.

Another silly box to check under "race". "Hispanic" That's not a race. That's a culture that happens to be built mostly around a language. An ethnicity. But it's a box my niece checks because her dad likes bright green colored cars and fuzzy dice hanging from the mirror. I'm kidding about the dice. I'm serious about the car. Back in the late 70s he drove around a bright green Nova. It was absolutely hideous. I gave him some **** about ****ing up a perfectly good Chevy Nova.

And that is exactly my point. Legality's and policy's. I just really wish all of this would melt away.

I am still looking for what my G-daughters can identify with.

 

[churchmouse]

.

Well, I guess we need to put the original owners back in place in our area if this is the new plan.
I am not sure which tribe actually lived here or if any are surviving.

No knock on anybody's opinions but this is a deep rabbit hole.

Oops.....meant to quote Jamil. More is needed.

 

[indyartisan]

Who built the Vinyl Village over the top of my fathers fathers fathers.... Happy Hunting Ground?

 

[Kutnupe14]

And that is exactly my point. Legality's and policy's. I just really wish all of this would melt away.

I am still looking for what my G-daughters can identify with.

Western society, specifically American.... would say black. I suspect you already know this.

 

[jamil]

.

I thought that was where you were going and replied again. How far back do we have to go to decide whose land it is? Who had it before the Palestinians? The then occupiers--well, controllers--of the land gave it to Israel and that pissed off the Palestinians. Who owns it now? Israel.