Online Discussion With An Anti

[Jubbie]

Got caught up going back & forth with an anti-gun poster on Reddit. I knew I should've just let it drop and not responded, but I was bored at work. I really don't know how to respond to this one. Just can't see a way to get through to this person. Everyone's thought processes are different and this person & I will never see eye to eye. This was his latest post.

"Lol at firearms saving lives. The only reason guns exist is to kill. That is why they were invented - so that you could kill more effectively. Do you know what saves lives, and is meant to save lives? Medicine. It can also kill. Guns don't save lives. They have never saved lives. They merely kill and take lives."

 

[misconfig]

Guns don't kill people, I KILL PEOPLE!

Guns killing people is like fat people blaming forks for their obesity.

 

[ATM]

There are many ways to stop a threat to your life.

They don't need to kill the threat but the most efficient ones may.

If medicating an assailant worked as well, I'd carry pills or a syringe.

 

[Arm America]

Life insurance doesn't save lives, it's wise to have it though,

Fire extinguisher's don't prevent fires, but come in handy when needed.

I could keep going but a person can't open a closed mind.

 

[Jubbie]

I actually used the fire extinguisher theory. Asked if he was playing his odds by not having a fire extinguisher or smoke alarm. I couldn't help but reply again.

"The point is, guns do exist. They aren't going away. Bad guys have them. If a bad guy wants to take my life (whether by gun or other weapon) then I have 2 options.
1. Let him kill me.
2. I kill him first. Which means a gun just saved a life, mine. If your life is forfeit in your eyes, that's your decision. Defending my life is my decision."

 

[1032JBT]

Copy and paste this and send it to the person. Obviously it is geared towards LE........but if one of those witnesses would have had a gun they would have been able to stop it at the onset.


Here is the story:


Terror and Tragedy in Turlock

Faced with a deranged man stomping a baby to death, one of your fellow cops did the only that could be done. And you would, too.

June 18, 2008
Shortly after 10 p.m. last Saturday night (June 14) motorists in rural Turlock, Calif., happened upon a sight too horrible to adequately describe.
There, in the darkened roadway, a man was repeatedly bashing, beating, stomping, punching, kicking, and slamming a baby. Witnesses called 911 and tried to stop the brutal attack, only to be repulsed by the attacker. During the attack, the young man was described as “very calm” and talked about “getting the demons out” of the child, all the while continuing the onslaught.
One witness estimated that this deranged adult delivered in excess of 100 stomps, kicks, and punches in an attack that lasted at least seven minutes.
At the time of the first 911 calls, the Stanislaus County Sheriff’s Department helicopter happened to be in the sky above Turlock. This air unit responded within six minutes to the frantic citizen reports, along with ground units. From the air above the scene, the helicopter crew (SCSD pilot and Modesto Police Department observer) witnessed the brutal beating as they lit up the man and the toddler with their spotlight.
The pilot made a skillful, night emergency landing as closely as possible in a field. It was a cow pasture separated from the road by a daunting obstacle electrified, barbed wire fencing.
Immediately upon landing, the Modesto officer sprinted 20 yards to the fence – commanding the suspect to cease his brutal attack against the helpless baby. The suspect’s response was to say “I’m not going to prison.” He raised his middle finger to the officer and continued kicking and stomping the baby.
The officer responded with the only option he had left. From a reported 10-foot distance, he shot the suspect in the forehead. The suspect dropped, dead, ending one of the most brutal and horrific attacks imaginable.
EMTs arrived quickly, but it was too late. The toddler was dead, mangled so badly it will take DNA to confirm his identity. However, the suspect’s identity is known, he’s the 27-year-old father of an infant son. And that infant was undoubtedly the victim of the attack. That this happened the night before Father’s Day is almost too sad to mention.
If you’re anything like me, this incident really got your blood boiling. In previous SWAT columns, we’ve discussed first-responder tactics for active shooters. While this atrocity didn’t involve a gun, it was a murder in progress, one that could only be stopped by physically stopping the threat. Which is precisely what the Modesto officer did, within two minutes of arrival on the scene. The actions of this and the other officers on the scene serve as a reminder to all of us that we need to be ready and willing to respond immediately at all times to protect the innocent. This is far more than our job; it’s our sworn duty.
There isn’t a police officer alive who doesn’t understand the ultimate dual responsibility of our profession. To protect and save innocent lives, and when necessary, take the lives of those who place others in imminent danger of death or serious bodily harm.
When it comes to the innocent—children especially—I don’t know of a single police officer who wouldn’t go to hell and back to save a life. A not so hidden secret of our profession is that children are the vulnerable spot in our “armor.” Even the toughest, most battle-hardened cop is shaken over tragedies involving innocent children and babies.
President Theodore Roosevelt’s famous “Man in the Arena” (1910) quote says it far better than I can. Most of you are familiar with parts of this quote. But I’m going to give it to you again in its entirety.
“It is not the critic who counts: not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles or where the doer of deeds could have done better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood, who strives valiantly, who errs and comes up short again and again, because there is no effort without shortcoming, but who knows the great enthusiasms, the great devotions, who spends himself for a worthy cause; who, at the best, knows in the end, the triumph of high achievement, and who, at the worst, if he fails, at least he fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who know neither victory nor defeat.”
I wasn’t there, but I can picture the horrific scene on that farm road in Turlock last weekend. And I stand 100 percent behind these officers, whose unhesitating actions put a decisive end to one of the most brutal, horrific crimes imaginable. That their best efforts were not enough was beyond their control.
In my book, these officers are heroes—upholding the highest traditions of our noble profession—duty and honor. Somewhere up in heaven, there’s a little boy waiting to tell these heroes something: “Thank you.”


If the anti doesn't change their mind even a little bit after reading that then they are a lost cause and don't waste anymore time on them. If you can't copy paste it then send me a PM with your email in it and I'll send you a copy.

 

[kedie]

I've read that story before and I still don't get how bystanders could allow themselves to be "repulsed" by the guy. Even if I didn't have a gun I would have to have done something. Even taking a beating from the guy would be better than living knowing I just stood there and called 911.

 

[1032JBT]

I completely agree with you, but if you want to know how someone could be repuled by the guy...............see the OP's statement from the anti in question. They are the kind that would just stand by and call 911 while watching a child be stomped to death. It's sad to say............but nothing can change that.

 

[jbombelli]

Here's what I would have said:


"That's right. Guns are for killing people. That's why I own every single gun I have. In case I need to kill a motherf####r that's trying to harm me, my wife or my children.

You're nothing but a weakling, hiding your cowardice away from the world behind your "principles." If somebody murders you, I won't give a rat's a**. Why? I hate sniveling little cowards who would rather see their whole family murdered than avail themselves of the tools that might actually give them a chance to fight back.

Oh, by the way... If you had YOUR way, I would have been murdered years ago. My wife would have been a widow, and my oldest son would have grown up without a father. So f*** you AND your cowardice you pu**y piece of s**t.

I won't be reading or responding to anything else you have to say, because whining, feeble, lackluster excuses for men like you are not fit to lick the mud from my dog's a**."


I'm not known for mincing words and being subtle on this issue.

 

[ATM]

I have 2 options.
1. Let him kill me.
2. [strike]I kill him first[/strike]. Stop him (which may or may not kill him.) Which means a gun just saved a life, mine. If your life is forfeit in your eyes, that's your decision. Defending my life is my decision."

Suggested response which refutes the "killing only" argument while still saving a life.

 

[infidel]

Here's what I would have said:


"That's right. Guns are for killing people. That's why I own every single gun I have. In case I need to kill a motherf####r that's trying to harm me, my wife or my children.

You're nothing but a weakling, hiding your cowardice away from the world behind your "principles." If somebody murders you, I won't give a rat's a**. Why? I hate sniveling little cowards who would rather see their whole family murdered than avail themselves of the tools that might actually give them a chance to fight back.

Oh, by the way... If you had YOUR way, I would have been murdered years ago. My wife would have been a widow, and my oldest son would have grown up without a father. So f*** you AND your cowardice you pu**y piece of s**t.

I won't be reading or responding to anything else you have to say, because whining, feeble, lackluster excuses for men like you are not fit to lick the mud from my dog's a**."


I'm not known for mincing words and being subtle on this issue.

How do you really feel though?

 

[pudly]

"Lol at firearms saving lives. The only reason guns exist is to kill. That is why they were invented - so that you could kill more effectively. Do you know what saves lives, and is meant to save lives? Medicine. It can also kill. Guns don't save lives. They have never saved lives. They merely kill and take lives."

Wow. Never saved lives? Guns have saved lives, protected freedoms, fed people, and stopped aggression. Seems pretty useful to me...

• Never heard of hunting for food to take care of your family.
• Never thought that stopping or deterring a killer would save lives.
• Never considered that they are most often used to prevent harm to yourself and your family.
• Never occurred to them that a teacher/administrator being armed at Columbine or other "gun free" victim zones might have saved a lot of lives.
• Never considered that police are armed (at least partially) to save lives.
• Never considered the history (and probably aren't aware) of people being unarmed before they were subjugated by various totalitarian governments.
• Never considered that 6 million Isreali's are still alive largely because they own and know how to use their guns while living in a region with 100s of millions of Muslims, many of whom would love nothing more than a second Holocaust.
• Never considered that South Korea is a free and prosperous nation because of the guns on their side of the border.
• Etc, etc, etc.

Actually, just plain never thought.

 

[Fireman906]

What are you doing on Reddit? that place is like THE anti-2a cesspool of liberal thinking.

 

[jbombelli]

How do you really feel though?

Should I have used smaller words?

 

[Jack Ryan]

Got caught up going back & forth with an anti-gun poster on Reddit. I knew I should've just let it drop and not responded, but I was bored at work. I really don't know how to respond to this one. Just can't see a way to get through to this person. Everyone's thought processes are different and this person & I will never see eye to eye. This was his latest post.

"Lol at firearms saving lives. The only reason guns exist is to kill. That is why they were invented - so that you could kill more effectively. Do you know what saves lives, and is meant to save lives? Medicine. It can also kill. Guns don't save lives. They have never saved lives. They merely kill and take lives."

Guns don't save lives, people with guns save lives.

Choose your battles more carefully in the future.

 

[ccochran3]

Rule number 1 in life: "You cannot argue with idiots"

 

[jbombelli]

Rule number 1 in life: "You cannot argue with idiots"

Rule #2 in life: although idiots don't understand reason, arguments and logic, they DO understand INSULTS.

 

[vwoodrum11]

Rule #2 in life: although idiots don't understand reason, arguments and logic, they DO understand INSULTS.

Lol. I also liked your first post. Good stuff.

 

[Jubbie]

It wasn't so much a battle, just my curiosity as to why this particular person was so against guns. Reddit can be fun to read at times to break the monotony at work. The particular thread was a son of a cop asking why so many people on Reddit were bashing cops. Started out saying I support them, just know that there are a few that don't act as friendly or truthful as I'd like. While verbally sparring with the anti, a fellow OCDO member posted a couple comments as well. The anti did bring up the whole thing about me killing someone who wants to kill me. I admitted I was mentioning that as worst case scenario. I'd fire for center of mass, and that there was a chance the aggressor would die. I tried to take all of his comments and actually try to comprehend the thought process. I can see where he is coming from, but I just can't live to that standard of thinking.

 

[n9iui]

Here's what I would have said:


"That's right. Guns are for killing people. That's why I own every single gun I have. In case I need to kill a motherf####r that's trying to harm me, my wife or my children.

You're nothing but a weakling, hiding your cowardice away from the world behind your "principles." If somebody murders you, I won't give a rat's a**. Why? I hate sniveling little cowards who would rather see their whole family murdered than avail themselves of the tools that might actually give them a chance to fight back.

Oh, by the way... If you had YOUR way, I would have been murdered years ago. My wife would have been a widow, and my oldest son would have grown up without a father. So f*** you AND your cowardice you pu**y piece of s**t.

I won't be reading or responding to anything else you have to say, because whining, feeble, lackluster excuses for men like you are not fit to lick the mud from my dog's a**."


Are you sure it was mud on your dog's a**?