open carry question

[BehindBlueI's]

I always thought the "terms thereof" referred to the terms of issuance. Meaning you still complied with the terms that you needed to be issued the license (no felonies, no domestics, any training requirements of your home state, etc). I've never taken it as terms of how its actually carried.

That's also how I applied it on the street. If your home permit was still valid, you're good to go. Its unreasonable to expect an officer to know the firearms laws of every other state, but its reasonable to expect him to e able to verify it hasn't been revoked or suspended (just like an out of state driver's license).

 

[Titanium_Frost]

I always thought the "terms thereof" referred to the terms of issuance. Meaning you still complied with the terms that you needed to be issued the license (no felonies, no domestics, any training requirements of your home state, etc). I've never taken it as terms of how its actually carried.

That's also how I applied it on the street. If your home permit was still valid, you're good to go. Its unreasonable to expect an officer to know the firearms laws of every other state, but its reasonable to expect him to e able to verify it hasn't been revoked or suspended (just like an out of state driver's license).

This is the correct interpretation that I have come to recognize. The mere fact being that Indiana itself has no distiction between open and concealed carry anymore, we just have a permit to CARRY. If you have a valid permit to CARRY from another state you are covered here.

All this nonsense about open and concealed comes from gun magazines and overzealous gun instructors like Pincus and Yeager.

 

[PGRChaplain]

The way I read the OP, his brother OC's at home with no permit. Sorry NC Permit required to carry here.

 

[IndyBeerman]

The way I read the OP, his brother OC's at home with no permit. Sorry NC Permit required to carry here.

I do believe this is incorrect, he'll either need a Indiana out of state LTCH, or a NC permit.

I do believe the reason being is that IC states that we HONOR all states permits, if that state has constitutional carry, they must obtain a out of state LTCH. Indiana requires that you are licensed, otherwise you are breaking Indiana law by carrying without a permit.

 

[Double T]

He has to carry with whatever regs are from his home state license/permit. If it says concealed, he has to carry concealed. If they are constitutional open carry, he can't carry here...has to have a permit/license.

 

[Titanium_Frost]

He has to carry with whatever regs are from his home state license/permit. If it says concealed, he has to carry concealed. If they are constitutional open carry, he can't carry here...has to have a permit/license.

That just doesn't make any sense. We go by INDIANA law here, not any other state.

If he possesses a valid license to carry a handgun in any fashion from any state he can carry any way he wants to in Indiana.

 

[Double T]

That just doesn't make any sense. We go by INDIANA law here, not any other state.

If he possesses a valid license to carry a handgun in any fashion from any state he can carry any way he wants to in Indiana.

It is my understanding that if the word's "concealed carry of a weapon" are printed on the license/permit, then you are supposed to conceal

I have been wrong before.

 

[arthrimus]

It is my understanding that if the word's "concealed carry of a weapon" are printed on the license/permit, then you are supposed to conceal

I have been wrong before.

I think the problem with that is that Indiana state law does not prohibit open carry for licensed individuals. If an out of state license says "Carry" on it. and is recognized by Indiana then I don't think it matters what comes before the "carry" part of the license. If individuals from other states are supposed to follow the laws of their states while in Indiana, then that puts a great deal of extra stress on local law enforcement to have to learn all of the ins and outs of the handgun laws of every state that we have reciprocity with. For example, some states have laws on the book which completely prohibit printing, whereas some states have laws that prohibit a certain amount of printing, and then others do not have any laws on the books against it. Expecting Indiana LEOs to know not only Indiana state law, but also the laws of a couple dozen other states is kinda unrealistic.

 

[IndyBeerman]

That just doesn't make any sense. We go by INDIANA law here, not any other state.

We must adhere to Indiana law, he must adhere to his states permit status (open/conceal and if it is a specific model that they must carry), AND follow Indiana law, it is a double edged sword, one that you must be very aware of.

If he possesses a valid license to carry a handgun in any fashion from any state he can carry any way he wants to in Indiana.

No he may not, he must carry in accordance of his permit, if he had a non resident Indiana LTCH, then he may carry as he wishes.

Also Constitutional carry states, nope, nada, not allowed, they must have an Non resident Indiana LTCH.

I verified this just about a hour ago with my wife's uncle, he has already been through this, he's a Arizona resident and in order for him to come back and see family and carry, he and had to get a Indiana non resident permit because he has no AZ permit.

It's a virtual spider web that you must traverse in order to stay on top of what laws we need to adhere to when traveling, if we had Constitutional Carry in all 50 states, then we would still have to stay on top of each states individual restrictions on where you may/may not carry.

 

[arthrimus]

We must adhere to Indiana law, he must adhere to his states permit status (open/conceal and if it is a specific model that they must carry), AND follow Indiana law, it is a double edged sword, one that you must be very aware of.



No he may not, he must carry in accordance of his permit, if he had a non resident Indiana LTCH, then he may carry as he wishes.

Also Constitutional carry states, nope, nada, not allowed, they must have an Non resident Indiana LTCH.

I verified this just about a hour ago with my wife's uncle, he has already been through this, he's a Arizona resident and in order for him to come back and see family and carry, he and had to get a Indiana non resident permit because he has no AZ permit.

It's a virtual spider web that you must traverse in order to stay on top of what laws we need to adhere to when traveling, if we had Constitutional Carry in all 50 states, then we would still have to stay on top of each states individual restrictions on where you may/may not carry.

That doesn't make any sense. Residents of other states don't have to follow their state laws when it comes to any other laws, they follow the laws of the state that they are in at the time. The only laws that are valid in Indiana are federal laws and Indiana laws, not NC laws nor AZ laws.

As you said, we do not allow carry by residents of constitutional carry states because we don't recognize the laws of states other than Indiana. We don't have a law on the books that explicitly states that permit holders of states that we recognize must abide by the laws of their own state while in Indiana. That just doesn't make any sense.

 

[Double T]

So why don't you volunteer to be the test case then? Move out of state, get a CCW, and try to open carry here on your concealed carry license.

Feel free.

You can't drive a semi in Indiana on a Colorado general purpose license. Nor can you ride a bike on a general purpose. If a License/Permit/Whatever, specifically states concealed weapon permit, you cannot open carry in Indiana per the IC quoted upthread.

 

[arthrimus]

So why don't you volunteer to be the test case then? Move out of state, get a CCW, and try to open carry here on your concealed carry license.

Feel free.

You can't drive a semi in Indiana on a Colorado general purpose license. Nor can you ride a bike on a general purpose. If a License/Permit/Whatever, specifically states concealed weapon permit, you cannot open carry in Indiana per the IC quoted upthread.

Except that the IC that you are referring to is more logically interpreted to mean that the license is recognized according to the terms of issuance of the state of origin, not the specific laws of that state pertaining to the permit it's self. Meaning that if a state that we reciprocate with deems you fit to carry by whatever requirements that they have come up with, no matter how different they are from ours, then so do we.

If it was interpreted the way you think it is, then "the terms thereof" would mean each state's entire set of carry laws, not just the distinction between OC and CC licenses. Why would that one minute detail of the issuing state's carry law be the only one that Indiana cares about just because it happens to be printed on the license. If that were the case then Indiana LEOs have a lot of studying to do to learn a couple dozen states' entire handgun code, as well as our own. Good luck with that.

I have an Indiana LTCH which makes no distinction on the manner in which I carry, but that doesn't mean that I can go to a reciprocal state that only allows CC and OC there because I have an LTCH and it doesn't expressly state that I can't OC. No I have to follow the laws of the state that I am in at the time, not the state that I happen to come from. It just so happens that Indiana has looser laws than most other states when it comes to this issue, but the same principle applies.

 

[Double T]

Again, please be our case study.

 

[arthrimus]

Again, please be our case study.

I'd love to, in fact I just might. I'm moving back to Arkansas at the end of 2014, and assuming that the Arkansas CCW permit system is still intact in the aftermath of the de facto constitutional carry legislation that becomes law next month, I might just get one for when I come back to visit.

 

[Titanium_Frost]

Again, please be our case study.

There would be no case to study. ALL of the LEOs I have talked to on INGO say they would see no reason to arrest someone for carrying without a permit, ALL of the lawyers agree and even a judge and a prosecutor have said the same thing.

IF you don't get arrested, don't get prosecuted and the judge won't hear the case there will be nothing for a case study.

Imagine going before a judge and prosecutor with the charges of carrying a handgun without a license and presenting your completely VALID out-of-state permit. Case dismissed. Indiana has NO laws about concealed or open carry so how would they even be able to say that you were carrying not how your permit allowed you to?

It is the same principle as our LTCH acting like a FOID card in Illinois. We don't have training, or a photo on our card so it really is not equal to a FOID but they recognize it as such regardless. Even if someone carried on a Florida CCW it is recognized as a LTCH for Indiana purposes and is completely allowed to OC since we have no laws against it here in Indiana, it is called reciprocity- look it up.

As far as being from a ConCarry state that has nothing to do with anything. If they have a permit (from ANYWHERE) they can carry open or concealed in Indiana, if they have no permit then they cannot carry here.

I don't understand why some of you guys make this so complicated.

 

[Bunnykid68]

I didn't know Indiana offered a non resident license

 

[RH822-A]

I didn't know Indiana offered a non resident license

Yes they do, but you must be employed or own a business in Indiana.

 

[IndyBeerman]

I didn't know Indiana offered a non resident license

Yes they do, but you must be employed or own a business in Indiana.

And it may only be a 4 year License, lifetime is not available.