Options for keeping a house warm with zero electric or gas.

[Zoub]

Mostly just wondering that if I were to only try and keep say the main living area warm for the family, I could close off all the bedrooms, which would mean closing off the master bath as well. Would only heating that space allow enough heat to leak into the crawl space to keep it above freezing?

Over longer periods of time, the crawl will continue to drop in temp as cold air from outside and inside flows down to the lowest point. Odds are your pipes wont freeze but every house is unique. Same way a small light bulb can add heat to a small space, a small lantern or two can add heat and light to your crawl. You could insulate your pipes wherever they run then funnel your heat source towards the air gaps that have the pipes in them.

If no power means no plumbing, drain the pipes.

The most interesting thing I have seen in the last 15 years is wood pellets. I am not using it as my primary heat source but we are only burning pellets in the fireplace this year, and it was built in 1950 so its not the most efficient thing. For the size room it is in, it has a lot of mass. It also has custom steel doors so it acts somewhat like it has an insert. With the wood pellet basket in it and good control of air flow we have been very happy with it so far.

 

[Nodonutz]

Our neighbor built a log home that is only heated w/ wood burning stoves. He has a pellet stove in the basement, an average sized wood burner in the main living area and then a smaller stove upstairs in the master suite. Considering our coldest temp this year was -39 /-65 WC in January, that's putting faith in your stoves. He says he stays comfy and sometimes has to open windows. I wish we had a woodstove, but its not our house. The house we are looking at buying has a fireplace, and we will be putting in a woodstove without a doubt. Will probably set up a battery back up system to power the well pump, so we can trickle water, if need be, and not lose plumbing.

 

[Zoub]

This is what I bought for the fireplace. http://thepelleteer.com/


Funny thing is the guy we rent from owns a side business doing pellet heaters and he had never heard of these baskets. Anyone I have spoken to around here who sells pellets has not either. While the doors he had made make it work better, the shear mass of the fireplace gives off heat for 12 hours so it is nice. When you compare using these pellets to cutting and splitting 6-12 full cords of wood its a no brainer even when the wood is free. Sell the wood, buy pellets with the money!

When we build we are doing pellet heaters, which are way more efficient then what I am doing now, but even now I love them. The BTU's and burn time per pound, how well they burn, the low amount of ash and even smoke. Wood is a backup now. A pellet heater in the basement would heat this entire cabin, keep the propane heater as a backup.

FYI I would need to check my notes, but on a day that went -40 or -42 I grilled steaks for breakfast on my propane grill. I am not saying it was fun, but an item called grill grate actually is great, even in extreme cold. Your must-have grilling grate for any and every grill | Replacement Grill Grates | GrillGrate

 

[Nodonutz]

Zoub - interesting products. Will check them out once the time comes. Flew in to Indy today and will be checking out houses tomorrow! Fingers crossed.

 

[Nodonutz]

Here's a (crappy) picture of our 'fireplace'. We bought the fireplace from a friend who was moving for $75. It is basically a metal box surrounded by the wooden fireplace. It has ceramic faux logs. The nice thing with this set up is, you can have the heat, but the FP should keep the kids away/safer. I have 3 canisters in there in this pic - usually have 2. What I do is keep the used Real Flame Gel canisters. I stuff a few paper towels in them, and fill with 91% Isopropyl, the higher % the better. The usual 50-70% has too much water in them. I had made some ahead of time and stored them, but the cans started to rust and made the tops hard to pop off. So, I keep a few empty cans w/ the paper towels and several bottles of the Iso on hand. Really heats up the living room (12x13), even when it is sub-zero outside. Allows us to turn down the thermostat; our furnace is diesel/heating oil and that can get $$. One bottle makes 3 canisters, costs $2.50/bottle at WalMart. Real Flame canisters are $3.50/can, but they add ''crackle'. The canisters burn for about +/- 2.5-3hrs, depending on burn rate, which I adjust the level of the flame by partially covering the can with the lid. It also can be put in pretty much any room.
Just one of many websites: http://www.realflame.com/

Hope this helps. Merry Christmas.

View attachment 34216

 

[IndyGunworks]

How long do the canisters last? I could see this being a good way to heat the master bedroom as well as add some appeal to the room at the same time.

 

[Nodonutz]

They last 2.5-3hrs on average. I regulate the output by sliding the tops on the cans about 1/2 way. Also, at about 1/3 open they will 'flicker' more, due to lack of air and are even more 'realistic'. Also, if you put one can of the Real Flame, they crackle and add ambiance. The house we're buying already has a FP in the master, which is a converted family room. We will install a woodstove to the 'new' family room, which is an addition to the house.
The current house did not have enough room to fit it in, else that's where it would have been.

I was really surprised at how much heat they kick out. Not much smell and not really any soot. We do have a room fan/filter/ionizer we run on a continuous basis to help. My wife has asthma and this FP does not aggravate it at all.

 

[IndyGunworks]

This strikes me as a fun project... pretty safe, doesn't need a flue, can be hand made using cement board as the insert with maybe a small amount of sheet metal for the ceiling, and can put out enough heat to make a room warmer. I will add this to the bottom of my project list.

 

[Nodonutz]

Yup - we got it cheap, and when I looked at it, it's pretty basic. When I see them online, the retail price is re-dunk-ulous.

 

[Sniper 79]

I have kids and went the LP route. I don't want extra jugs of liquid fuel sitting around that will most likely never get used. Especially keeping it in attached garage or in house scares the hell out of me.

I found the tanks in the garbage and have no money in them. People throw them out all the time. I generally have at least three filled and ready to go for my grill mainly and in case I need them for heat. Works out well.

 

[Nodonutz]

Just check the dates on those tanks. I have had a few 'expired' tanks, but most folks at the exchange places don't check. Heck I had a couple that had the 'old style' valves w/o the OPD that are banned, but they still took them. Now with newer tanks I can go to the local Co-Op and have them refilled a lot cheaper.

 

[Spudgunr]

While there are lots of options, it really boils down to how much heat you need for how long.

A kerosene heater properly maintained is for longer term heating a better value and more options in an emergency (can burn kero, lamp oil, fuel oil, or even diesel if you can stand the smell, and you can store diesel in most containters).

If you are talking outages of a few hours being all you care about then propane is fast and simple.

Keep in mind that it's a simple formula for how much heat you need to keep a space at an acceptable temperature, and most houses need tens of thousands of BTUs/hour to keep 20-40f above the outside temperature. One of the little heaters will take the chill off a room, but won't keep a house warm unless it's not that cold outside. The colder it is, the more BTU/hr you need.

FWIW, a gallon of propane contains about 91.5k btu. A gallon of kerosene contains about 141k btu. Propane usually burns a little more efficient, but not by so much as to be a real consideration.

My highly energy efficient house, ~1000sq ft above the basement, requires 1.5k btu/hr for every 1 degree F rise inside above the outside temp. So if it is 0F outside I need 75k btu/hr to keep the inside temp at 50f...

I don't know your house, but something in the underlined sentence is just plain wrong and could discourage somebody for prepping for the winter. However, if they do follow that then they will be PLENTY warm. I have 1200 sq ft above ground, and 1000 or so in the basement (partially above ground). My furnace is only 80,000 BTU, and there were days that the high was 0. I assure you, my thermostat is set WELL above 50, and the furnace was NOT running 24/7. The above sentence would mean that if your furnace was 75,000 BTU it would run around the clock when it is 0 outside, and the house would stabilize at 50 degrees. I could see an online calculator recommending a 75k BTU furnace for such a house, but you don't need 75k btu / hour to heat it.

You don't want to heat every room of the house. Run something smallish in the basement to keep pipes from freezing, and then heat one room at a time (and everybody pile in to one room to sleep) if you want to keep efficient or limit the amount of equipment you have. I have a portable buddy which was enough for a recent power outage (link to blog post I did on it, and here is another on my thoughts on the subject in general) I experienced (30ish outside). One room got plenty warm, had to turn the heater off actually. It brought the temp of a cold bedroom up QUICKLY and had to be turned down/off pretty quick.

I have a 30,000 BTU heater in my garage (insulated, but not well). It will take it from 15 degrees to 80 degrees in under an hour, so something is WAY wrong about needing 75k BTU to keep a 50 degree differential. A couple propane/kerosene heaters will do you good, just store enough fuel. I think I average around 100 therms or so per month in the cold months (don't have utility bill handy, but would add up to about right), so 3-4 therms per day. A therm is around 100,000 BTU, so 300-400,000 BTU per day to keep my house warm, That would round to 20lbs or propane per day or 3 gallons of kerosene (used to be the kerosene was the cheaper way to store backup heat, not as much the case any more with $4-5 kero). I store 15 gallons of kerosene and keep 3 tanks of propane. I have natural gas, so its not like I'll be too cold, but I like the idea of staying warm and I do NOT like the idea of being cold, so I store backup heat. y

 

[Zoub]

Here's a (crappy) picture of our 'fireplace'. We bought the fireplace from a friend who was moving for $75. It is basically a metal box surrounded by the wooden fireplace. It has ceramic faux logs. The nice thing with this set up is, you can have the heat, but the FP should keep the kids away/safer. I have 3 canisters in there in this pic - usually have 2. What I do is keep the used Real Flame Gel canisters. I stuff a few paper towels in them, and fill with 91% Isopropyl, the higher % the better. The usual 50-70% has too much water in them. I had made some ahead of time and stored them, but the cans started to rust and made the tops hard to pop off. So, I keep a few empty cans w/ the paper towels and several bottles of the Iso on hand. Really heats up the living room (12x13), even when it is sub-zero outside. Allows us to turn down the thermostat; our furnace is diesel/heating oil and that can get $$. One bottle makes 3 canisters, costs $2.50/bottle at WalMart. Real Flame canisters are $3.50/can, but they add ''crackle'. The canisters burn for about +/- 2.5-3hrs, depending on burn rate, which I adjust the level of the flame by partially covering the can with the lid. It also can be put in pretty much any room.
Just one of many websites: http://www.realflame.com/

Hope this helps. Merry Christmas.

View attachment 34216

I met the real flame folks when I lived in Racine. What your post made me think of was making sterno gel at home. I have yet to try it, but the DIY is out there all over the Net. Make a few batches, use some, store some for testing in 6 and 12 months.

 

[Nodonutz]

Haven't tried gelling. When storing in the past, I had issues of rust (since they were used cans) around the lids. MAde them harder to open. Figured I could try either high temp paint, or sealing with wax, since I also had some evaporation. Even the 91% has water, hence the rust. There is also a process of adding salt, separating the water out blah-blah-blah, but I guess I'm too lazy and would rather spend the time . I think I'll try making gel one of these days, low on beer, so I have the time.

 

[Zoub]

Damn that reminds me, my better half put some sweet stout beers in the fridge for dinner and we didn't drink them! Let me clarify, sweet stout beer she brewed. It's only about 5% alcohol but it's a winner! Gotta go grab one.

 

[Nodonutz]

Sounds good!! A homebrew 'operation' is already on the 'to do' list once we get settled. Been looking at where to get supplies and equipment. And a smokehouse, to go with the outdoor kitchen/grill area

 

[cop car]

Shut off water. Drain pipes. Sleeping bag.

 

[daddyusmaximus]

We got some surprise furnace issues yesterday, on the eve of the coldest night of the year... Combination of electric heater, propane heater, and the kerosene torpedo out of the garage kept the house at 59* when it is 1* outside. Thankfully the HVAC guy is coming today. Still can't talk the wife into a wood stove. I just don't get it. I may have to get one anyway and just deal with the argument for a while.

 

[CathyInBlue]

Super-insulate and use passive solar heating techniques.

 

[birdo]

Those older style "airtight" woodstoves are absolutely perfect, if the layout of your house lends well to them.