Parting Company

[mrjarrell]

Walter Williams takes a look at the government and their adherence to the Constitution. Is it time for a separation? Or can things be fixed? Personally, I think we're way beyond the point of fixing things and a "divorce" is inevitable an necessary. We're stuck with an abusive spouse who is influenced by two out of control children, (who act with one mind) who have managed to run things into the ground. Altho I agree with his analysis of the situation, I don't think there's any hope left in this "marriage". It's time to split the sheets and go our separate ways.

via Townhall

Here's the question asked in my September 2000 column titled "It's Time To Part Company": "If one group of people prefers government control and management of people's lives and another prefers liberty and a desire to be left alone, should they be required to fight, antagonize one another, risk bloodshed and loss of life in order to impose their preferences or should they be able to peaceably part company and go their separate ways?"
The problem that our nation faces is very much like a marriage where one partner has broken, and has no intention of keeping, the marital vows. Of course, the marriage can remain intact and one party tries to impose his will on the other and engage in the deviousness of one-upsmanship. Rather than submission by one party or domestic violence, a more peaceable alternative is separation.

I believe we are nearing a point where there are enough irreconcilable differences between those Americans who want to control other Americans and those Americans who want to be left alone that separation is the only peaceable alternative. Just as in a marriage, where vows are broken, our human rights protections guaranteed by the U.S. Constitution have been grossly violated by a government instituted to protect them. The Democrat-controlled Washington is simply an escalation of a process that has been in full stride for at least two decades. There is no evidence that Americans who are responsible for and support constitutional abrogation have any intention of mending their ways.

Read the rest at the source.

 

[indykid]

How soon people forget. A separation was tried in the mid 1800s. It lead to more blood being spilled on US soil then all conflicts before and after combined. Any attempt at a true separation will result in even more blood being spilled.

Those in government swore to uphold the Constitution of the United States of America and if they are not abiding by that oath, they should be stripped of their title, tried in a court of law and then thrown in prison. After a few lose their liberties, hopefully the rest would get the message. If the rest still don't, continue filling prisons with former government employees and eventually the government of the people, by the people and for the people will return TO the people.

 

[Ogre]

I'd be interested to hear how either of you thinks your ideas could be initiated, realistically...?

 

[Fletch]

How soon people forget. A separation was tried in the mid 1800s. It lead to more blood being spilled on US soil then all conflicts before and after combined. Any attempt at a true separation will result in even more blood being spilled.

So out of a dataset of one, you extrapolate an ironclad B-follows-A cause and effect.

 

[CombatVet]

Is a divorce with in our law? The people have a right per the constitution, but do the states? I think Texas has probed this inquiry, and found it unlawful. I believe there is a thread about it around here some where.

The easy road is always divorce, but when is the line crossed? Do you continue to go to "counciling" for the sake of the "children"? Or do you save your breath, and time and sever the relationship? These are questions not for a soldier like me, they are for far wiser men than I, sir.

 

[Joe Williams]

The only possibility for a peaceful reconciliation, or separation, is a Constitutional Convention where the states reassert their power, or dissolve the Union.

The federal government is already deliberately disregarding the Constitution. I do not believe they would abide by the results of a Constitutional Convention that did either of the above.

Still, I think it's the only possibility for a peaceful resolution. The other alternative is, sooner or later, inevitable.

 

[Fletch]

The easy road is always divorce, but when is the line crossed?

I know quite a few divorced people. I've never heard any of them describe it as easy.

 

[antsi]

I don't see any possibility of a peacable separation.

Either:
(a) reform from within the system according to Constitutional processes (I realize the current political climate is adverse to this; but it is at least technically possible)
(b) gradual wearing down of the working/independent segment; acceptance by workers of having to support an increasing burden of non-workers
(c) forcible clash between working/independent class and nonworking/bureaucratic class

The nonworkers and the bureaucrats aren't just going to allow the workers to go peacably on their way. They need us. Parasites cannot survive without a host organism suck the blood out of. This was what the recent health care debate was all about: should healthy working people have to buy in to a system where they pay for the health care of noncontributors?

Gun control laws are largely about who will be better armed: the bureaucrats or the workers?

Honestly I think (b) is what is most likely to happen. It's what has been happening.

 

[Srtsi4wd]

Some people think the Civil War was about slavery. Others think it was about states rights.

I believe that we are headed for another point in our nations history that will be looked upon the same way.

 

[smoking357]

I'm glad you're reading Lew Rockwell, but Lew reprinted an article from 2000.

Is it time for a dissolution of America? Absolutely. That's long past time. Our rights will be better preserved by smaller, competing, governments.

 

[SavageEagle]

Having a ConCon right now would be the worst possible outcome. With the way that Liberals and "Entitlementalists" are running this Country now, I can very well see us losing our Current Bill of Rights. Only if that could be preserved could a Con-Con work. And a Con-Con is the only thing a "divorce" will bring.

Oh, and I say a divorce is the easy way out. It's easier than sticking around and working things out no matter how bad it is. For the record, I think a divorce would be good for this Country. Just not yet.

 

[Joe Williams]

Having a ConCon right now would be the worst possible outcome. With the way that Liberals and "Entitlementalists" are running this Country now, I can very well see us losing our Current Bill of Rights. Only if that could be preserved could a Con-Con work. And a Con-Con is the only thing a "divorce" will bring.

Oh, and I say a divorce is the easy way out. It's easier than sticking around and working things out no matter how bad it is. For the record, I think a divorce would be good for this Country. Just not yet.

A Constitutional Convention is risky. I can certainly understand why the timid are too frightened of the risks involved in trying to return our country to being a government run according to law, and the principals laid down by the founding fathers. It's true, it could merely result in codifying the usurpation of our rights that has already occurred, meaning we would, once again, have to fight for them as this nation's founders were forced to do. Instead, we can continue the current course, let our rights be taken slowly (though at a drastically accelerating pace,) and let our children or grandchildren fight for freedom. Or, we take the risk now, hope to re-establish the Constitution as law of the land, and hope against hope the federal government honors such action. Or, force them to put their designs out in the open once and for all, and act accordingly.

It's almost certainly too late to fix things by flapping our gums (they've demonstrated conclusively that they are not listening and do not care,) and casting our votes every couple of years. The federal government has seized power it does not legally have, it will never relinquish it unless forced and will instead continue to sieze more and more power, and not one elected official in Washington has done anything substantive to stop it. And before you wave Ron Paul at me, I will point out that he's merely another career politician, striving for more power like the rest, who despite all his talking and perhaps even sincere efforts, hasn't actually accomplished a single thing to stop what has happened to our once free land.

 

[SavageEagle]

A Constitutional Convention is risky. I can certainly understand why the timid are too frightened of the risks involved in trying to return our country to being a government run according to law, and the principals laid down by the founding fathers. It's true, it could merely result in codifying the usurpation of our rights that has already occurred, meaning we would, once again, have to fight for them as this nation's founders were forced to do. Instead, we can continue the current course, let our rights be taken slowly (though at a drastically accelerating pace,) and let our children or grandchildren fight for freedom. Or, we take the risk now, hope to re-establish the Constitution as law of the land, and hope against hope the federal government honors such action. Or, force them to put their designs out in the open once and for all, and act accordingly.

It's almost certainly too late to fix things by flapping our gums (they've demonstrated conclusively that they are not listening and do not care,) and casting our votes every couple of years. The federal government has seized power it does not legally have, it will never relinquish it unless forced and will instead continue to sieze more and more power, and not one elected official in Washington has done anything substantive to stop it. And before you wave Ron Paul at me, I will point out that he's merely another career politician, striving for more power like the rest, who despite all his talking and perhaps even sincere efforts, hasn't actually accomplished a single thing to stop what has happened to our once free land.

I agree with you. I'm ready to fight for what's right. I just feel, through past conversations with other members here, that a Con-Con would just be too risky at this point. I think once the economy collapses and people have to actually earn what they need, maybe it would be a better time. When they realize that government cannot help them. And before anyone starts in on me because of the assistance I've used, doesn't mean I'm not willing to earn what I need. You have to be able to find work to earn.

Either way, Somethign needs to happen. I have a bad feeling now that the dow toped 11K today.

 

[smoking357]

A Constitutional Convention is risky. I can certainly understand why the timid are too frightened of the risks involved in trying to return our country to being a government run according to law, and the principals laid down by the founding fathers. It's true, it could merely result in codifying the usurpation of our rights that has already occurred, meaning we would, once again, have to fight for them as this nation's founders were forced to do. Instead, we can continue the current course, let our rights be taken slowly (though at a drastically accelerating pace,) and let our children or grandchildren fight for freedom. Or, we take the risk now, hope to re-establish the Constitution as law of the land, and hope against hope the federal government honors such action. Or, force them to put their designs out in the open once and for all, and act accordingly.

What's risky is waiting around to see the police state grow in power, hoping to live out my life without hearing the "knock on the door" or seeing the jackboots in the street imposing the crackdown. See the Pittsburgh G20 videos on Youtube.

And let's stop worshiping the Constitution. It's turned out to be a pretty lousy idea and a coup d^etat of the founding ideals. If this present union is to be saved, let's ditch the Constitution and return to the Articles of Confederation.

Whatever we do, we must absolutely get rid of judicial review and the idea that the Supreme Court is an equal branch of government.

 

[T-rav]

And let's stop worshiping the Constitution. It's turned out to be a pretty lousy idea and a coup d^etat of the founding ideals. If this present union is to be saved, let's ditch the Constitution and return to the Articles of Confederation.

Well you can go to a country that doesnt have our constitution, since you seem to hate it so much. Our founders went away from the AoC because it was to close to anarchy, and what comes from that a tyrannical government. So in reality we would be back at square one.

 

[E5RANGER375]

Whatever we do, we must absolutely get rid of judicial review and the idea that the Supreme Court is an equal branch of government.

AMEN!!!! how can we rely on a court ran by a unconstitutional government to secure our liberties? screw the courts they are just as bad as the congress and the president

 

[smoking357]

Well you can go to a country that doesnt have our constitution, since you seem to hate it so much. Our founders went away from the AoC because it was to close to anarchy, and what comes from that a tyrannical government. So in reality we would be back at square one.

1. Anarchy is an impossibility and intellectually dishonest to threaten.

2. Thanks for proving my point about Republicans. Republicans don't give a damn about smaller government. Republicans just want their own form of big government. Immediately after ratifying and reestablishing the Constitution, invalidating all laws, there would be some Republican trying to make drugs, driving fast, prostitution and gambling illegal, and another Republican would be trying to put the Ten Commandments in a public building. Bah.

Obama is far less of a threat to Liberty than Bush was, yet there's so much alarm about Obama when the Republicans have flat altered America, forever.

3) I said: "And let's stop worshiping the Constitution. It's turned out to be a pretty lousy idea and a coup d^etat of the founding ideals." Empirically, that's true. No way 'round it. The Constitution let everything we have today happen. if you're displeased with this, you can't hold up the Constitution as that which will save us from itself. Really, that's funny.

 

[T-rav]

You need to get over this republican democrat crap, there are actually some people out there that give a damn about the constitution and not s stupid letter next to their name like you seem to try to point out.

Im not displeased one bit with what the constitution has given us. It has given us the closest thing to freedom that you cant imagine. Tell us just why the constitution is so evil?

 

[Panama]

You need to get over this republican democrat crap, there are actually some people out there that give a damn about the constitution and not s stupid letter next to their name like you seem to try to point out.

Im not displeased one bit with what the constitution has given us. It has given us the closest thing to freedom that you cant imagine. Tell us just why the constitution is so evil?

 

[SavageEagle]

1. Anarchy is an impossibility and intellectually dishonest to threaten.

2. Thanks for proving my point about Republicans. Republicans don't give a damn about smaller government. Republicans just want their own form of big government. Immediately after ratifying and reestablishing the Constitution, invalidating all laws, there would be some Republican trying to make drugs, driving fast, prostitution and gambling illegal, and another Republican would be trying to put the Ten Commandments in a public building. Bah.

Obama is far less of a threat to Liberty than Bush was, yet there's so much alarm about Obama when the Republicans have flat altered America, forever.

3) I said: "And let's stop worshiping the Constitution. It's turned out to be a pretty lousy idea and a coup d^etat of the founding ideals." Empirically, that's true. No way 'round it. The Constitution let everything we have today happen. if you're displeased with this, you can't hold up the Constitution as that which will save us from itself. Really, that's funny.

You are the most unAmerican.... screwball I have ever had the misfortune of reading. You REALLY need to take your ass back to Europe where you would be much happier and quit trying to ruin my Country. Seriously. You are not welcome here. I'll even sell some of my possessions to pay for your one way airfare to a Country of your choice in the Eastern Hemisphere.

You need to get over this republican democrat crap, there are actually some people out there that give a damn about the constitution and not s stupid letter next to their name like you seem to try to point out.

Im not displeased one bit with what the constitution has given us. It has given us the closest thing to freedom that you cant imagine. Tell us just why the constitution is so evil?

Apparently we're all evil Republicans and the Constitution should be burnt and rewritten to model the Russians. That's what he wants and thinks anyway. I think it's time to ignore his posts cause all he's doing is trying to stir the pot and doing a good job of it at that.