[Patriots] 1058 laid to rest

[HK45Mark23]

Yesterday evening I got a phone call from Christina with Rep. Cheatham's office. She told me that HB 1058 will not receive a hearing. Cheatham is the Vice Chair in the committee that the bill is in. It's chaired by Rep. Bischoff, whom I was told also declared that the bill would not receive a hearing.

Rep. Eric Koch also called me this morning to congratulate our group for bringing attention to this "bad bill" as he put it.

This is very good news. HB 1058 gave me cause for concern. This was a textbook example of a bill that would fool a lot of legislators into voting for it. At first glance it looks like a pretty feel good package, but this thing contains nothing but razor wire for lawful citizens.

Here is the text:

DIGEST OF INTRODUCED BILL​

Handgun licenses. Requires a person: (1) who has a license to carry a handgun; (2) who carries the handgun in a vehicle or on or about the person's body; and (3) who is stopped or otherwise detained by a law enforcement officer for any reason; to immediately disclose to the law enforcement officer that the person is carrying the handgun in the vehicle or on or about the person's body. Makes a failure to immediately disclose the information to a law enforcement officer: (1) a Class C infraction for the first violation; and (2) a Class B infraction for a second or subsequent violation.

Here's why I put this on the radar. First, it would only apply to a person who has a license to carry. It divides the state into two segments. Those that have a license and those who don't.

Those who don't either choose not to or they are prohibited from having one. So the bonehead felon who is in a high speed chase after knocking off a convenience store with his stolen gun and finally gets stopped, won't be subject to this law because he doesn't have a license and his attorney will tell that to the judge and jury in the courtroom.

The other land mine in this bill is the word "immediate". By whose definition, or whose stop watch, do we base immediate on?

This bill has no merit or bearing on any crime control, but it would surely be a fine tool to jeopardize the citizen who it targets; the person who has proven to be a "proper person" by virtue of being issued that license.

Thanks to all of you who made calls into the state house to demand this bill not get a hearing and we hope that those legislators are men of their word and hold to what they promised.

I also want to acknowledge our friends Ashley Varner, Bill Dowden and Charlie Hiltunen for arranging a meeting with the Indianapolis Mayor Ballard and impress upon him their concerns with his choice of Public Safety Director, Frank Straub. Thanks folks!

This Saturday will be a "Meet Your Legislator Meeting" in Evansville at the Central Library at 9 AM. I hope some of you will be there.

John Hostettler is having a campaign volunteer meeting on Monday, Jan. 18th at the Marriott on Hwy 41 N in Evansville at 7 PM and there will be a table at the Indy 1500 gun show this weekend with volunteers seeking signatures for him.

I'm having a campaign meeting on Tuesday, Jan. 19th at 6:30 PM at the German Township Fire Station where we used to hold our Patriot meetings.

Be sure to remember the 2nd Amendment Patriot meeting this month on Saturday the 30th at the West Side Sportsman's Club and the pot luck dinner will be bring you favorite chili or potato soup. Desserts and soda pops would be nice, too.



Jim and Margie
2nd Amendment Patriots
STAY UNITED
www.2ndamendmentpatriots.org


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[trnsplntfrmohio]

The word immediate should not be an issue. Where I come from in a land east of here with only ccw permits, you must inform the officer pulling you over right away if you are carrying. The only odd thing is if you have a ccw and do not have a weapon you do not have to inform the officer of anything. I haven't heard any negatives of that.

 

[HK45Mark23]

It is an issue; there are places where such laws exist and the word immediately has been abused.

Someone actually did inform the officer upon his approach to the car and was still charged with not immediately informing him.

Why should you have to inform them? Your status of possessing a gun permit is already known before the officer gets to your car if the car is registered in your name.

Whose sides are you on, the governments or yours? I am on your and my side, are you?

 

[bobn911]

Why should you have to inform them? Your status of possessing a gun permit is already known before the officer gets to your car if the car is registered in your name.

That's only true if the driver IS the registered owner.
Since I'm from MI and we have the disclose law, it has been abused both ways. The bad guys ain't gonna disclose, why should the good guys have to? Later, Bob

 

[trnsplntfrmohio]

It is an issue; there are places where such laws exist and the word immediately has been abused.

Someone actually did inform the officer upon his approach to the car and was still charged with not immediately informing him.

Why should you have to inform them? Your status of possessing a gun permit is already known before the officer gets to your car if the car is registered in your name.

Whose sides are you on, the governments or yours? I am on your and my side, are you?

I am on your side. I'm glad the bill didn't pass, I was just giving my take on one part of it.

 

[HK45Mark23]

Also remember that the law, at least here in Indiana, would have only affected LTCH holders and not unlicensed persons.

Again it was to further restrict and regulate the law abiding citizen who has already proven him/herself as a good citizen.

Remember this law would not have done anything but criminalized legal firearm owners

“This bill has no merit or bearing on any crime control, but it would surely be a fine tool to jeopardize the citizen who it targets; the person who has proven to be a "proper person" by virtue of being issued that license.”

Let’s out law criminals, not law abiding citizens.

 

[INGunGuy]

This bill would have been unconstitutional at minimum and would have never passed the muster of the Indiana Supreme Court.

INGunGuy

 

[Bill of Rights]

...Why should you have to inform them? Your status of possessing a gun permit is already known before the officer gets to your car if the car is registered in your name....

On what do you base this statement? Several of our INGO LEOs have clearly stated that this is not the case. Has this recently changed?? Please share! Thanks!

ETA: FYI: I was also against this bill.

Blessings,
Bill

 

[techres]

Good job to those who worked to stop this bill! In Ohio the immediate thing has been a big issue of abuse and has never been necessary here.

 

[HK45Mark23]

On what do you base this statement? Several of our INGO LEOs have clearly stated that this is not the case. Has this recently changed?? Please share! Thanks!

ETA: FYI: I was also against this bill.

Blessings,
Bill

Every time I have been pulled over in a car registered in my name they already knew that I possessed a LTCH permit.

This statement is compounded by at least 10 years as well, as these occurrences were in the mid and late 1990's.

If I did not have a weapon and had not informed them as to my status, they would ask me if I had a weapon on me as they already knew that I had a permit.

To make myself clear, I always inform an officer as they are walking up to the car by having my driver’s license and LTCH permit in hand and outside the window in plain sight and permit totally visible as they are walking up to the car. Then once they have made it to my window I immediately inform them by saying "Sir I am armed at this time."

I carry my license and permit in a manner in which it is easily accessible if needed. I find it to be a lot less hassle to use this modus operandi.

I think it is prudent to inform them but should not be made a criminal offence if not done.

I think that a lot of officers run the registers name even before exiting their car. I imagine that as they are pulling you over they run the cars plates. They find the registers name and then run it as well. Once they do that it would appear to the personnel at HQ in records or dispatch who is receiving the request from the officer. At that time they are already informed of a lot about you before approaching your vehicle. They may know your previous driving infractions (I.E. Driving while intoxicated, speeding etc…) your license status, if the vehicle is stolen, if the register has a LTCH etc…

If it is not your car, maybe your fathers or girlfriends or brothers, then their status is how they will first approach the car, then process your background next.

I am also sure that different agencies have different procedures and different officers are smarter or less intelligent and have different procedures as well.

 

[Roadie]

I gotta say, this just gets weirder and weirder. Our LEOs say that the LTCH database is NOT linked to our DL and/or plates, Yet, we have several members who have been pulled over and state the LEO knew before hand...

 

[Blue Tile Spook]

The LTCH database is in no way hooked to the license plate/driver's license database, per "Allison", Regional Manager for Region 4 of the BMV.

HK45, I think you are making assumptions. Maybe the LEOs first question was, "Sir, do you have any weapons in the vehicle?" I can see how something like that would lead you to believe that they may already know, but I have read a few LEOs on INGO say that that is just a general first question asked during a traffic stop. Those same officers have written here that a "return" on the LTCH system can, at times, take upward of 20 minutes when they are trying to verify an LTCH (IIRC).

LEOs, please chime in again if you would.

 

[El Cazador]

The LTCH database is in no way hooked to the license plate/driver's license database, per "Allison", Regional Manager for Region 4 of the BMV.

HK45, I think you are making assumptions. Maybe the LEOs first question was, "Sir, do you have any weapons in the vehicle?" I can see how something like that would lead you to believe that they may already know, but I have read a few LEOs on INGO say that that is just a general first question asked during a traffic stop. Those same officers have written here that a "return" on the LTCH system can, at times, take upward of 20 minutes when they are trying to verify an LTCH (IIRC).

LEOs, please chime in again if you would.

In more than 25 years of driving with a sidearm of some sort with me almost constantly, and the few traffic stops I've had happen to me, the officer who pulled me over has never asked me "Sir, do you have a weapon in the vehicle?" as he approached. And this was with pro2A/NRA stickers displayed prominently, generally.
Is this a regional thing, or an agency thing, or have I just been very lucky?

By the way, I'm a proponent of "No ask, no tell".

 

[HK45Mark23]

I am making no assumptions, I have been asked "Sir Do you have a weapon at this time?" and informed them, "no not today" and asked "why do you ask?" and then have been informed that they knew when they ran my name, that it came back that I was LTCH.

After sleeping on my last response I remember it happening a few years ago as well.

When they run your name through our local PD EPD they know if you have a LTCH.

I have been next to an officer either standing outside of my vehicle or in my vehicle as he stood at the window when he called in my license and then lady over the radio respond “He is clean no record, holder is LTCH.”

I know that in my area dispatch will inform the officer if you LTCH because I have heard the dispatch say it myself.

 

[Blue Tile Spook]

Ah, okay, that explanation I can understand if that department's SOP has them run your info in both databases.

Thank you for the clarification.

 

[kludge]

Also remember that the law, at least here in Indiana, would have only affected LTCH holders and not unlicensed persons.

Unlicensed persons are within their 5th Amendment Rights to say nothing.

Criminals too.

Law-Abiding citizens, not so much.

I'm glad this is dead!!!