Pistols Suck! Get Over It.

[sjstill]

I just realized what the difference is between the 1911 and the hi cap 9mm's.

The 1911's have a 100 year tradition of sucking.

Uh, you forgot the purple

 

[churchmouse]

I did my own testing in wet phone books. 9mm vs .45acp.

I learned a lot from it and suggest everyone do a little testing on there own just so they know what their carry ammo is like. FMJ 9mm is nothing like hollow point 9mm. They preform totally different.

FMJ 9mm has a lot of penetration which is great in some situations and not great in others. 9mm in either FMJ or JHP will penetrat better than .45 fmj or jhp. Just a fact.

A good JHP 9mm will expand and penetrat well. 9mm has higher velocity than .45 so expands much more reliably. .45 starts off wide so if it doesnt expand, it doesn't matter as much.

I used to carry a .45acp but now i carry a 9mm because the 9mm seems to do more with less. The 9mm is about half the size of a .45 cartridge yet my tests showed little difference. 9mm seems to out preform it's size. .45 seems to under preform.

In the real world I dont think there is much of a difference. I pick the 9mm because of:
Reduced recoil
Higher capacity for same size
Easier to hit with
Faster follow up shots
Cheap practice ammo
Vast ammo choice
Smaller, more compact guns in general
Better penetration
Higher velocity means more shock
Seems to do the job well enough

Some of your facts are spot on and some are not. Come ring some steel with me. The .45 did not penetrate as deep because it was "Stopping" and transmitting a lot of energy. The 9MM will through and through which hurts and kills but does not stop. 2 different rounds with different characteristics.
Both with positive's and draw backs.

 

[churchmouse]

I just realized what the difference is between the 1911 and the hi cap 9mm's.

The 1911's have a 100 year tradition of sucking.

Wow, get your facts straight my friend.


Edit.........And you carry/train/shoot with .What??????/
Fair question.

 

[Clay]

a pistol is just to get me back to my rifle

 

[churchmouse]

I just realized what the difference is between the 1911 and the hi cap 9mm's.

The 1911's have a 100 year tradition of sucking.

Probably a proud Hi-Point owner.....Putz.

 

[Scutter01]

 

[SmileDocHill]

Probably a proud Hi-Point owner.....Putz.

Really? Consider this the in thread warning, NO name calling personal attacks or vacations will follow. That is all.

 

[jve153]

I prefer 9mm because currently it is within arms reach. I bought it with no intention other than shooting for the sake of shooting. My pick was based on shooting a friends gun which I felt fit perfectly (opinion has not changed) and ammo was least expensive. I love my now edc and haven't found something to give me any thoughts otherwise. I carry federal hydrashock ammunition BC its inexpensive, has proven reliable in my firearm and I can get more at the same place I go to pick up a case of pop. Having picked up the shrapnel after shooting steel with these I can honestly say I trust these to hurt something should it choose to try and hurt me.

 

[Hemingway]

Actually, that was when he upgraded from his .25 Beretta to his .32 Walther.

Is that right, Paul? I stand corrected--a rare occurrence. I knew it was from Beretta to Walther but I didn't realize he carried a .25 initially.





Also, 1911 .45's aren't technically pistols (so they don't belong in this thread). They are death rays, capable of delivering terminal ballistic performance just by pointing at the BG. They also function perfectly. Even the basic stock model will generally go through an entire box of 50 rounds without ever needing lube. Or parts.

 

[.452browning]

Well said.If you think that a 9mm is not powerful enough then grab a rifle or shotgun, not a .45 or another pistol caliber.
Not to mention that shot placement is the most important, a .22LR to the head will kill where a 44 magnum to the leg will only wound.

Not to mention that shot placement is the most important, a .22LR to the head can kill where a 44 magnum to the leg can also kill

 

[rhino]

People look at me funny when I tell them that handguns are puny. They look at me funnier when they demand that they "need" a .40 because 9mm won't do the job. I try to reiterate that 1) handguns are puny, and 2) the difference in terminal ballistics between .40 and 9mm with modern ammo is negligible. It doesn't agree with what they read in a magazine or what they "heard," so it can't possibly be true.

Then I bring up the idea that what if they can actually shoot the 9mm more effectively (especially in lightweight pistols) and get more rounds where they want them to go more quickly? No one wants to hear that one either.

 

[churchmouse]

People look at me funny when I tell them that handguns are puny. They look at me funnier when they demand that they "need" a .40 because 9mm won't do the job. I try to reiterate that 1) handguns are puny, and 2) the difference in terminal ballistics between .40 and 9mm with modern ammo is negligible. It doesn't agree with what they read in a magazine or what they "heard," so it can't possibly be true.

Then I bring up the idea that what if they can actually shoot the 9mm more effectively (especially in lightweight pistols) and get more rounds where they want them to go more quickly? No one wants to hear that one either.

We all have pre-determined notions and reasons (real or imaginary) for buying a certain type, brand or caliber gun. To rationalize this with some folks is like getting a Catholic to attend another church. Not gonna happen. Same with the 9MM, 40 cal and .45 ACP groups.
We have .40 and .45 which all get shot regularly. We shoot with fellows that swear by their 9MM. We have done the steel tests, the phone book tests and all of that. Proof positive to each rounds strong and weak points. Everybody still carries what they started with.

 

[CampingJosh]

Even better, tonight I had a guy tell me about the "knock down power" of his .38.

Was he punching with it? The Ruger SP101 weighs more than a framing hammer.

 

[Gamez235]

Steel and phone books are no way to test how a round performs against body tissue... Just sayin.

 

[Shay]

Was he punching with it? The Ruger SP101 weighs more than a framing hammer.

Yeah. The only way that .38 is going to be knocking somebody down is if you tape it to the front of a car and run somebody over.

 

[churchmouse]

Steel and phone books are no way to test how a round performs against body tissue... Just sayin.

Yes, that is true but we could never talk anyone into letting us use them as a true example of tissue damage...............
All we were doing is getting a feel for how hard and damage done. The 9MM was always last.
I surely would not want to be hit by any of them.

 

[kwatters]

Some facts:
FBI Handgun Wounding Factors and Effectiveness - FirearmsTactical.com

Personal Defense Ammunition Performance Data

 

[ViperJock]

Paul,
What you say is interesting. BUT please don't confuse us with data and realistic experimentation. Pre-conceived notions and anecdotes are our preferred MO on INGO.

I totally agreee with you. I initially bought .40s at the suggestion of experienced shooters and my wife bought 9s. In retrospect I wish I had just gone all 9. Every once in a while I still think I might sell off the .40s and buy 9s in their place. Having said that, I still wear my .40 not my wife's 9.

 

[huntall50]

Will the caliber debating ever end... Shot placement is key, pistol is to get you to your long gun, pistols suck, carry what you can get the most vital hits with in the shortest amount of time. Also recognize that the guy talking about 1911's having a 100 yr history of sucking used a wink at the end of the sentence, a reference to the video posted also a credit to the 100yrs of the 1911, so take no offense.

 

[TopDog]

I know only a few things for sure. A good knife will do more damage than a hand gun shot. A long gun does a lot more damage than a knife or a hand gun. Shot placement is more important than caliber, so shoot what you shoot best. And finally the four B's remain true, Big Bores Bust Better. In general in a self defense situation I will take a long gun over a knife or a handgun any day.

We all have pre-determined notions and reasons (real or imaginary) for buying a certain type, brand or caliber gun. To rationalize this with some folks is like getting a Catholic to attend another church. Not gonna happen. Same with the 9MM, 40 cal and .45 ACP groups.
We have .40 and .45 which all get shot regularly. We shoot with fellows that swear by their 9MM. We have done the steel tests, the phone book tests and all of that. Proof positive to each rounds strong and weak points. Everybody still carries what they started with.

Not to get into a religious discussion as that would be against the rules. Just want to mention your comment suggests that you are not aware of the mass exodus the Catholic church has been suffering over the last few years. Stereotypes are not always accurate, that applies to guns as well as people.