Police action shooting, stop man shooting into occupied car

[BiscuitNaBasket]

A lot of the shootings are gang related, or at least the people being shot are known gang members. There is also some organized robbery activity that is gang related.

That said, I don't really feel qualified to say if the gang related activity is up or down this year.

Thanks for your input. I didn't realize there were that many gang related robberies.

 

[Crbn79]

I drive from the northwest side to the southeast side almost daily and I use 465. I have never seen a non-ISP police car being the "ticket brigade" on the interstate. Our traffic branch has only a handful of officers and some reserves.

The Ticket brigade on 465 has vehicles clearly marked Indiana State Police. It's also impossible for the casual observer to know if the vehicle pulled over isn't on a BOLO or APB list.

A lot of citizens don't realize those 90 "Desk job" that were thrown on the street were unmarked Detectives who were often able to be in "the right place at the right time". It was simply a shift of focus because those feet were already on the ground.

 

[stephen87]

I've seen non-ISP with people pulled over on 465. Everytime though, it's Lawrence PD with someone pulled over on the south side.

 

[Denny347]

BBI, Frank, VUPD, Denny... any comment about gang activity in Indianapolis being on the rise this year more so than in the past?

Gangs...not that I know of. We have had a significant increase in Heroin trafficking/dealing/OD ever since they disbanded our district narcotics unit citing manpower. Many of our homicides stem from this. I do not know the reasoning behind this latest police action shooting.

 

[IndyDave1776]

Police action shooting on city?s near northwest side, no officers injured | Fox 59 News ? fox59.com



Seems like more officers would equal more opportunities to be in the right place at the right time.

Indeed so, and would afford those officers more time to become familiar with the patrol area with one important benefit being able to recognize something not quite right much more easily than when in what is essentially a strange place.

Ballard says more sidewalks, parks, roads and bridges (infrastructure) will curb crime. More cops are not needed.

From the viewpoint of a police officer with skin in the game, so to speak, this is a failure in leadership and a shining example of the mayor burying his head in the sand.

From the viewpoint of a tax payer in Marion County, this is unacceptable for the mayor to ignore the people. You do not hear us citizens calling for more bike lanes, parks or cricket fields. You hear us constantly clamoring for safer neighborhoods. Believing that parks and bike lanes are even remotely related to crime is completely out of touch with reality.

Don't forget the cricket fields. If we can get the yutes to play more cricket, crime will surely go down.

This would indicate that Ballard hired Frank Straub because they were both believers in the 'broken windows' theory of law enforcement based on the notion that if the place looks pretty and you enforce the hell out of petty stuff, the more dangerous criminals will go away of their own accord to more comfortable surroundings. There may be some practical truth here, but it doesn't work when things are too far out of hand. NYC is held up as an example of this working. I would argue that while this thinking was in vogue when their crime problem was brought under control, it was not the enforcement of petty ordinances and beautifying the place that did it but rather that they basically went full police state. That works every time if you are willing to accept the conditions necessary for its employment. Case in point, Nazi Germany had remarkably little crime. Their method of operation did in fact work if you accept the end justifying whatever means are necessary to reach it. Personally, I am not willing to live that way.

Back to Indy, since we are not ready to accept 'stop and frisk' and essentially prohibiting anyone other than police from carrying guns, hence anyone with a gun is automatically a BG and fired upon as such, I will go with hiring at least enough officers to replace the attrition, preferably more than that, and leave Ballard to his wet dreams about how building a cricket field and a new bridge will stop crime by making the place too pretty for criminals. I would remind him how well that worked out when the same justifications were used in the political runup to building subsidized housing in most major cities and how those places became sh*tholes in short order.

I see people complaining about cops writing tickets all the time. I have a theory that those people only want the police to enforce the laws they don't break.

There is certainly some of that, but you also have to allow for people getting pissed when there is a significant problem with serious crime and they see what amounts to a waste of resources that could be applied to murderers, robbers, and rapists. I know that it creates one of the better chances of randomly scooping up outstanding warrants (so they can be hauled in and beat the cop back to the scene of the traffic stop) but it is a matter where perception equals reality, especially when that perception is that resources are being used to harass [me] for something petty and arbitrary while the prick who broke into my garage and took off with the weed eater is slamming down a cold one laughing about it.

 

[BehindBlueI's]

There is certainly some of that, but you also have to allow for people getting pissed when there is a significant problem with serious crime and they see what amounts to a waste of resources that could be applied to murderers, robbers, and rapists. I know that it creates one of the better chances of randomly scooping up outstanding warrants (so they can be hauled in and beat the cop back to the scene of the traffic stop) but it is a matter where perception equals reality, especially when that perception is that resources are being used to harass [me] for something petty and arbitrary while the prick who broke into my garage and took off with the weed eater is slamming down a cold one laughing about it.

Remember what I said about assembly line work vs police work?

You can guarantee if those cops could be doing something about a murder, robber, or rapist they would be instead of running traffic. Crime is not evenly spread in either time or location, and neither are officers, but there MUST be some cops available for every area of the city for when things do go wrong there. If there's a violent domestic, you don't want a 20 minute response time because all the cops are on the other side of town dealing with a murder.

You must also realize there are some crimes we simply can't solve. If there are no suspect leads and no physical evidence, there's not much I can do about your burgled garage outside of waiting for the weedeater to show up in a pawn shop if you had the serial number.

 

[IndyDave1776]

Remember what I said about assembly line work vs police work?

You can guarantee if those cops could be doing something about a murder, robber, or rapist they would be instead of running traffic. Crime is not evenly spread in either time or location, and neither are officers, but there MUST be some cops available for every area of the city for when things do go wrong there. If there's a violent domestic, you don't want a 20 minute response time because all the cops are on the other side of town dealing with a murder.

You must also realize there are some crimes we simply can't solve. If there are no suspect leads and no physical evidence, there's not much I can do about your burgled garage outside of waiting for the weedeater to show up in a pawn shop if you had the serial number.

I was addressing a perception rather than what is necessarily a fair, objective, and comprehensive assessment of what people see. Everything you have said is true, but it still frosts people when they perceive that they are getting more punishment and less practical assistance than is fitting on their dime. I didn't say that this is fair, just addressing that there is often more to the objection than just being, as previously posted, in favor of enforcing the law other than those a given person likes to break.

This goes back to the relationship-building thing I have been addressing repeatedly. A modicum of understanding would go a long way. I understand that and you understand that, but addressing the perception of people who feel (right or wrong) that they are being beaten with the stick they hand the .gov to use on criminals while the criminals skate is a major source of ill will that could be reduced if, among other things, we had enough officers so that they have time to stop, grab something to drink, and talk to people for a few while getting out of the stress for a bit. As that goes, I understand that without traffic enforcement we would have a demolition derby as is the case most everywhere with a concentrated population and lack of enforcement. Still, the guy who is still waiting on some results for his weedeater probably isn't going to come to that on his own while receiving his 'driving award' from the officer not presently engaged in correcting burglars.

 

[T755]

Once again. Traffic enforcement kicks up burglers. They drive too. Sometimes with the stolen stuff in the car providing the homeowner wrote the numbers down. Traffic enforcement is a important component. You will never stop burgs from happening but you can run the element out if they don't feel like they can drive there with the police out hunting.

 

[IndyDave1776]

Once again. Traffic enforcement kicks up burglers. They drive too. Sometimes with the stolen stuff in the car providing the homeowner wrote the numbers down. Traffic enforcement is a important component. You will never stop burgs from happening but you can run the element out if they don't feel like they can drive there with the police out hunting.

Exactly. Still, assisting the perception to match the reality seems to be the obstacle between good officers and good citizens. There are a few officers who regularly post on INGO, one in particular stands out, who deserve awards for persuading me to believe that there are such things as good officers. When you grow up with police who are some of the most useless and criminal people in your community it is not necessarily easy to see past that baggage. If my example person had sufficient incidental conversation to realize that in making a traffic stop, his weedeater could well have been riding shotgun in the stopped car, his perception is going to change a bit, at least to the point of understanding that there is more to making a traffic stop than being on revenue patrol. It happens, but it is not the universal reason. That can be easy not to see, especially given that no everyone has a background involving quality police.

 

[BehindBlueI's]

This is not my own work, so I'll just quote it here and let folks make their own decision. COPS grants are federal grants to hire officers, who must then be retained for a certain number of years or the grant must be repaid. I believe its 3 years after the grant, but am not positive.

Here's the problem with the Mayor's "can't be funded" excuse for not going after the COPS grant. He's been mayor for 7 years. If you take the conservative estimate of 50 officers a year (I would argue 10-15 more annually but I don't have the data) lost to attrition you come to a total of 350 officers lost on his tenure. We've hired maybe 70. The salaries and benefits for the remaining 280 officers don't go back to the department once they leave the city's employ, those funds are diverted into the city's General Fund. The choice not to use that money to hire replacements was his and his alone, he could have done so without counsel approval. You would still have a net gain because a 1st to 3rd year patrolman makes so much less than the 30+ year veterans and supervisors retiring. Now add the salaries of the next 150 officers to leave between now and the 2017 grant he is passing on and you have 500 officers funded in an instant. This is the choice he has made.

 

[IndyDave1776]

Ballard, pay attention! The stupid, it hurts! You should need morphine as bad as it should be hurting you!

 

[actaeon277]

Number of beat cops down hundreds in Chicago - Chicago Tribune

Chicago also has fewer police.
And they act surprised that fewer cops "on the beat" actually means something other than savings.

 

[Denny347]

This is not my own work, so I'll just quote it here and let folks make their own decision. COPS grants are federal grants to hire officers, who must then be retained for a certain number of years or the grant must be repaid. I believe its 3 years after the grant, but am not positive.

I just don't understand why he is not called to task over this? I believe it was Peterson who made it this way but why has Ballard refused to change it? It's our damn money, not his.