Police officer kills man for carving a piece of wood in public.

[Instant=.40cal=Karma]

The first sign of the Seattle officer's thugishness, for me, was when he address the guy by yelling, "Hey, HEY, HEY!!" Instead of an, "Excuse me, or sir (follow by his command or request)." It makes my blood boil when I see this blatant abuse of power over everyday citizens. Hell, it even happens to their own. Have you see the reports of Firemen, EMTs, and plain clothed detectives harassed by these JBTs?

Showing some respect when doing your job will go a long ways towards us non-privy folks...

 

[phylodog]

Dross, problem is that their training today emphasizes getting in hits after the flag is thrown. They are being trained to shoot/use violence if they do not get instant compliance no matter if they are in fear of death or serious bodily injury.

All police training is approved by attorneys.

 

[Kirk Freeman]

By police attorneys who are doing it wrong.

This hyperaggressive culture is literally killing us.

 

[Expat]

I always start with the default position of dross. Without any evidence to the contrary, I will always assume it was a good shoot. Here though we do have some other info. The witness asked why he did what he did. This would make me think that she did not see any imminent danger that would have explained the shooting. Then you have his response which did not mention any danger. The man failed to comply so he shot him. We also know that his own department investigated and found the shooting to have been unjustified. Unless that was changed in some later info that came out.

 

[bassplayrguy]

All police training is approved by attorneys.

Well it must be ok then right?
Give me a break.

 

[lashicoN]

So you're saying that the "victim" was not even given a chance to drop the knife and turn around, even though I heard the officer yell at him multiple times to do so in the video?

He steps from the car and orders the man to drop the knife multiple times. This is on the video. This cannot be disputed.

The man is shot after several of the commands to drop the knife. This is heard on the tape.

The article says the shootee may have been deaf in one ear. Maybe the officer should have approached him man to man, instead of ***** to man, from the back, like a coward.

It does not violate your rights. The court has upheld this. 4. This video does not PROVE ANY VIOLATION OF THE LAW yet you guys buy into the emotional side of things and automatically assume that this was a murder by jackbooted thugs.

Clear your heads and try again.

Oh...getting shot in the back by a coward doesn't violate our right to life? I see...

I do wonder though if the Seattle officer may have reacted differently given that they had many previous confrontations with the man, they knew that he was an alcoholic with mental problems, had a violent past, and had threatened to kill police previously. I can't speak for them, but I'm guessing maybe they "profiled" him based on their knowledge of the man more than his appearance. It doesn't justify a shooting, but it might explain why the officer was more on edge with this specific man.

Can you please cite this so I can get my facts ironed out. I read where he was a drunk and he had "exposed" himself to a staff member and the recovery house he stayed in, and got himself a felony for it, and they took him back after the fact, because they said they didn't believe he was a threat. I haven't read anything about this violent history he has had or threats of killing police that you speak of. I'll happily read about it though.

Oh Boy! InGunOwners usual five or six resident experts at it again! Legends in their own minds, capable of knowing what happened when they could not even see what happened. Thug walk!?? Good god people get a life.

Perhaps the officer did screw up. Perhaps he did not. But you know it alls was not there. What person jumps on board with any report put out by CBS,ABC,NBC or any of the other left wing liberal unwatched news casts? No one that has any credibility IMO.

Tasers you say? Only a fool uses a Taser during any potential deadly force situation especially when you are alone.

Gee, sounds an awful lot like you just profiled CBS, ABC, and NBC. "Good god, j706, get a life ". Don't you know we aren't allowed to profile people by how they walk, or talk, according to you? Deadly force situation? Are you kidding me? Seriously. Look at how deadly the situation was on camera. Look at how alarmed the woman walking by was. She looks terrified. Oh, nevermind, that was after the coward officer shot a man in the back for no apparent reason, other than he didn't respect his authority immediately.

no, I tried to find some but they kept folding up their knives and running away

Duh, E5, YOU HAVE TO SHOOT THEM IN THE BACK!

The person walking across the street was key. Reading the articles in this thread, the review board interviewed witnesses. The only threat was in the mind of the cop.

Bingo! That is the most telling part of the video, in my opinion.

 

[hornadylnl]

This is going to be an unpopular position, but I think we have to give the cop the benefit of the doubt. I hate doing it, because everything we know screams that this was bad.

That said, this illustrates my issues with cops. I think they have to get the benefit of the doubt in these types of situations. If there's any doubt, if there's any room at all for it to be a judgment call, we have to give them the benefit of the doubt.

Now, the fact that we give them this enormous power means that they must be held to a much higher standard than the average person, and a standard to which they are not currently held. In fact, they are held to a much lower standard.

So, I say give him a pass because this is judgment and we don't know. But, and I say again, BUT - when we catch a cop wrong, unrefutably wrong, he should suffer terribly. Beat a prisoner for retaliation - lose your job and go to jail for twice the sentence. Speeding, or giving a pass to another cop for speeding - fired. Break any law, get fired. Lie in an investigation - long, long jail term.

A cop should be the easiest person in the world to fire. A cop should live his life far above the rest of us in squeaky clean conduct. That's the price for the power we give him to possibly commit murder and get away with it.

I agree that officers deserve the benefit of the doubt. But should they be bigger beneficiaries than citizens? Did this woodcarver receive the benefit of the doubt? Did the guy who received the body check into the wall and is now on life support receive it? Does the constitution give government employees more benefit of the doubt than citizens? When a cop can kill a motorcyclist at .19 bac and have all charges dropped, we know there's an imbalance.

 

[hornadylnl]

The manner in which this officer exited his vehicle means absolutely nothing. Yet driving with a burnt out light is ample evidence that you're drunk, a drug dealer, axe murderer, etc.

 

[IncendiaryGunner]

no, I tried to find some but they kept folding up their knives and running away

You gave them too much time.... You are supposed to fire as you approach them...

 

[Keyser Soze]

Dross, problem is that their training today emphasizes getting in hits after the flag is thrown. They are being trained to shoot/use violence if they do not get instant compliance no matter if they are in fear of death or serious bodily injury.

We are seeing this across the country, from coast to coast:

Portland officers use Tasers on 2 men who had surrendered, costing city almost $140,000 to settle lawsuits | OregonLive.com

Beacon jury exonerates victim of criminal charges

This hyperaggression is unconstitutional and is being tolerated by a system that protects the enforcers over the Constitution.

How is this a bad tase? This guy was not in custody and was resisting arrest? Most department sops call for taser after verbal none compliance on ...and rightfully so. Often the subject will just one up your force. Your going from a verbal none compliance situation to a fight/lethal force situation. That being said it does not mean you tase every single person who does not immediately comply after verbal commands but it should be an option.

Since when are you an expert on police training? Don't think I have met you before at use of force any seminars or classes?

 

[IncendiaryGunner]

How is this a bad tase? This guy was not in custody and was resisting arrest? Most department sops call for taser after verbal none compliance on ...and rightfully so. Often the subject will just one up your force. Your going from a verbal none compliance situation to a fight/lethal force situation. That being said it does not mean you tase every single person who does not immediately comply after verbal commands but it should be an option.

Since when are you an expert on police training? Don't think I have met you before at use of force any seminars or classes?

The first link, or the second?

In the first link, it says they tased them while they were on their knees facing away with their hands behind their head... and that violated policy by doing so... Do you believe that situation requires the deployment of a taser? It cost the city of Portland $140,000...

In the second link, they hit a woman because she opened her mouth while they were beating her husband... their testimonies were rejected because they gave contradictory statements. This usually happens when people are being dishonest about the events. Litigation is still pending against the officers.

 

[radonc73]

So if an officer walks in front of me and he has a weapon, I can feel endangered and shoot him in the back with no penalty? A holstered gun is just as dangerous as a closed knife. If they knew the guy enough to say he was violent, even though he was arrested for exposing himself, they should have known that he was hearing impared, it doesn't work both ways unless you are an officer.

Do some cops really see any citizen killed by another officer as a bad shoot or will they feel the need to defend them constantly no matter what.

 

[Keyser Soze]

The first link, or the second?

In the first link, it says they tased them while they were on their knees facing away with their hands behind their head... and that violated policy by doing so... Do you believe that situation requires the deployment of a taser? It cost the city of Portland $140,000...

In the second link, they hit a woman because she opened her mouth while they were beating her husband... their testimonies were rejected because they gave contradictory statements. This usually happens when people are being dishonest about the events. Litigation is still pending against the officers.

1st vid....The officer ordered him to the ground three times. Told him he would be tased if he did not get on the ground. Gave him another command. Then tased him. Even the guy taking the video was telling him to comply. When your being arrested its not time for discussion or negotiation. I am not aware of any department policy around central Indiana that prevents you from tasing someone on their knees. Would I do it? Probably not.
Let say I was 5'5 110 the suspect is a giant. I am the only officer on the scene. Suspect is refusing to prone and extremely agitated. Tazer could be a possibility.

Second link....A. Bias source... did not read.

 

[Keyser Soze]

Do some cops really see any citizen killed by another officer as a bad shoot or will they feel the need to defend them constantly no matter what.

Bad shoot....I think most officers active and retired would agree that it was a bad shoot.

 

[Kirk Freeman]

Since when are you an expert on police training?

Since never.

I am, however, a concerned citizen and I get to have an opinion about how public servants behave.

 

[E5RANGER375]

All police training is approved by attorneys.

paid by who though? I would doubt they have the citizens best interest in mind. Rather they protect their client the police, city or state, and mearly tell them the best way to word things to have the best chances of surviving a lawsuit.

 

[gunman41mag]

paid by who though? I would doubt they have the citizens best interest in mind. Rather they protect their client the police, city or state, and mearly tell them the best way to word things to have the best chances of surviving a lawsuit.

Your post hits the nail in the head, the city doesn't want a lawsuit, they'll protect the policeman

 

[Keyser Soze]

Rather they protect their client the police, city or state, and mearly tell them the best way to word things to have the best chances of surviving a lawsuit.

Put everything in your mama's name!

 

[Kase]

Oh Boy! InGunOwners usual five or six resident experts at it again! Legends in their own minds, capable of knowing what happened when they could not even see what happened. Thug walk!?? Good god people get a life.

Perhaps the officer did screw up. Perhaps he did not. But you know it alls was not there. What person jumps on board with any report put out by CBS,ABC,NBC or any of the other left wing liberal unwatched news casts? No one that has any credibility IMO.

Tasers you say? Only a fool uses a Taser during any potential deadly force situation especially when you are alone.

Man you have to be ing me. Are you honestly that arrogant? First of all, no one here is listening to "left wing media". We are all just watching the facts. They are very blatant and obvious.

And for tasers.....Do you have any clue why the taser was introduced to police officers in the first place? To PREVENT DEADLY FORCE being used on an individual, exactly like this situation calls. I work with an LEO, and he was absolutely sickened by this video. This cop obviously had a problem going into the situation, and he could use about 30 years in prison to figure out how to solve it. Hate to inform you, but a badge doesn't give someone the right to kill.

BTW I'm not an LEO hater or anything. I know quite a few officers that I would trust my life to. Unfortunetly a few rotten apples can make the whole tree look bad

 

[E5RANGER375]

Your post hits the nail in the head, the city doesn't want a lawsuit, they'll protect the policeman

yep, protecting the rights of the people is the last thing on a city or police attorneys mind. they will do a flip and **** on the constitution in a heartbeat if they can squeeze out the win from their cheeks.