Popped Primers - .308

[rimfire_crazed]

I was in a hurry with my original post and the "brass of unknown age and origin" issue really stuck out to me as a problem (and it still is), but yes, the other missteps that were taken were equally problematic.

That being said, it appears the the OP has corrected his problem and is well on the way to finding a safe and accurate load in his rifle.

OP - be careful seating that far out. If chamber pressures are already high, they could spike further during that short jump to the lands. Many shooters shoot with their bullets making a very short jump, or even with the bullet seated against the lands, but their powder charges are adjusted for what could possibly be an increase in start pressure.

 

[straight-shooter]

OP - be careful seating that far out. If chamber pressures are already high, they could spike further during that short jump to the lands. Many shooters shoot with their bullets making a very short jump, or even with the bullet seated against the lands, but their powder charges are adjusted for what could possibly be an increase in start pressure.

Thanks for the heads up on this....

Another question here. I looked over the factory Federal Gold Match rounds and the primers on all of the rounds fired are flat. Identical to todays reduced hand loads. Is this a normal condition and just the nature of the beast in certain situations.

The firing pin strike mark on the primer is nice and flat with no cratering which is good.

 

[rimfire_crazed]

"flattened primers" is an extremely subjective condition. I have rifles that flatten primers on factory loads. Often it's not "are they flat" but "how flat are they?"

 

[billybob44]

Flat Federal Primers??

Thanks for the heads up on this....

Another question here. I looked over the factory Federal Gold Match rounds and the primers on all of the rounds fired are flat. Identical to todays reduced hand loads. Is this a normal condition and just the nature of the beast in certain situations.

The firing pin strike mark on the primer is nice and flat with no cratering which is good.

The flat primer may be due to the Federal brand of primers in the Federal Gold Medal Match loads. Federal primers are known to be some of the softest primers out there. Since you are already backing down your powder charge, you may consider CCI or Winchester Magnum primers for your next load secession?...Bill.

 

[Mortblanc]

I anticipate flattened primers as part of the normal preasure response. It is expected. I usually get nice flat primers with the recomended starting loads. Tool marks evident in rather hot loads and flowing of primer metal when things are getting too hot.

That is disturbing, when the primer craters at the firing pin strike or fills the entire primer pocket as if it is being swedged in place.

When that response is present there is usually also difficult extraction, the stiff bolt handle.

That is about when I thank God for the miricle of modern steel, proof standards and good bullet pullers.

 

[j706]

Pitch those junk a-- federal cases!! They are way to soft for reloading. I might reload them once. Then I crush them. IMO buy Winchester.

 

[Broom_jm]

What an interesting thread!

@ Straight-Shooter -- Go back and read Kludge's post. It has everything you need to know about this problem, and nothing extra to muddy the waters.

I have gone through everything you're doing right now, with almost exactly the same rifle. The FGMM ammo is some of the most accurate factory stuff out there, but I WILL NOT reload it, except for lower-pressure plinking rounds. I switched to WW cases and all my concerns were alleviated, and the groups were just as good, or better.

Federal 308 brass has a well-deserved reputation for being soft. That was likely once-fired brass you used, and you are FAR from the first person to have seen blown pockets on just the 2nd firing. I've seen twice-fired Federal 308 brass where you can seat the primer all the way to the bottom of the pocket...with your THUMB. There are a lot of guys out there who will argue all day long that there is nothing wrong with the Federal 308 brass, but you've seen for yourself that there is. If I were you, I'd avoid it like the plague or give it to someone who doesn't mind taking the risk.

 

[U.S. Patriot]

Pitch those junk a-- federal cases!! They are way to soft for reloading. I might reload them once. Then I crush them. IMO buy Winchester.

I use Federal brass for my .308 reloads. They have been loaded five times, and there is no visiual damage, and the primer pockets are not loose. I hear a lot about Federal brass, yet personally, have yet to see an issue.

 

[Broom_jm]

I use Federal brass for my .308 reloads. They have been loaded five times, and there is no visiual damage, and the primer pockets are not loose. I hear a lot about Federal brass, yet personally, have yet to see an issue.

What tool do you use to seat your primers? I've asked this question of quite a few guys, about Federal 308 brass. Most of the guys who think it's fine load on a progressive where they don't have the "feel" for how much pressure it takes to seat the primer.

One guy in particular tried seating a dozen or so primers using a hand-held priming tool and compared those to WW cases. Suffice to say, he now keeps Federal brass separate and does not load it hot.

Take 3 or 4 of those cases, size them, then take a primer and try seating it using just your thumb...let us know what you find?

 

[U.S. Patriot]

What tool do you use to seat your primers? I've asked this question of quite a few guys, about Federal 308 brass. Most of the guys who think it's fine load on a progressive where they don't have the "feel" for how much pressure it takes to seat the primer.

One guy in particular tried seating a dozen or so primers using a hand-held priming tool and compared those to WW cases. Suffice to say, he now keeps Federal brass separate and does not load it hot.

Take 3 or 4 of those cases, size them, then take a primer and try seating it using just your thumb...let us know what you find?

I seat all my primers with a Lee hand priming tool. That way I can feel the resistance of the primer being seated. It takes some force to seat them. I load my rounds 2 grains under max according to Hodgdon load data for Varget.

 

[Broom_jm]

I seat all my primers with a Lee hand priming tool. That way I can feel the resistance of the primer being seated. It takes some force to seat them. I load my rounds 2 grains under max according to Hodgdon load data for Varget.

Have you ever had occasion to seat primers in Federal 308 cases and those from another manufacturer, at the same time?

 

[straight-shooter]

I use a Lee hand priming tool and feel what i think to be enough resistance when the primer is going in. I've loaded a ton of .223 into LC brass in the past years but never .308

My local gun shop sells Winchester brass so i'm going to head down there this weekend and grab a couple hundred. This way i'll have something to compare the Federal to.

 

[ckcollins2003]

LC .308 brass is good to go. I prefer Winchester personally because I feel I get more accurate ammo and I know I get more reloads out of them, but if you're just using them for plinking and not groups then LC is much cheaper than buying Winchester.

As for your load data, if you're using H4895, NOT IMR 4895, max load is 43.5 according to Hodgdon. And that's for a Sierra HPBT bullet. The A-Max is a longer bullet which means you'll build up more pressure since it will be seated farther into the case than a Sierra HPBT such as the Matchking.

Hope you get the pressure issue straightened out.

 

[straight-shooter]

I've got the pressure issues well under control by dropping my load into the 41.4 grain area and all is well.

I stopped at the local fun shop and picked up some new Winchester brass today and loaded some up. Very good results with a couple sub-moa groups. I believe this will be the brass i'm going to stick to from here on out. A little on the pricey side but if i can get enough reloads from them then all is good.

I will consider annealing the necks after about 4 or 5 firings.

 

[Meister]

I've owned 6 different 308's from different manufacturers, and my FP10LE is the one that shows pressure the earliest. Loads for it are made at .4 grains less that in any of my other actions.

I use Federal brass for my .308 reloads. They have been loaded five times, and there is no visual damage, and the primer pockets are not loose. I hear a lot about Federal brass, yet personally, have yet to see an issue.

Same here! When I feel the primer pocket is getting loose, I mark the brass with a black sharpie so it gets tossed in the recycle bin after it's next firing.

 

[Broom_jm]

Interesting stuff!

In the "New Brass Life Testing: Annealing" thread, individual pieces of brass were loaded over 100 times, by neck-sizing only, without annealing, before they failed. These were all once-fired Remington brass at the start of the experiment. None of the control group failed due to a loose primer pocket. Using a very similar load to the charge used in this testing, I've had Federal brass primer pockets too loose to be safe after 3 firings. If that ain't soft brass, I don't know what is.

It seems that neck-sizing is the key and annealing may be of limited value?

 

[Meister]

Interesting stuff!

In the "New Brass Life Testing: Annealing" thread, individual pieces of brass were loaded over 100 times, by neck-sizing only, without annealing, before they failed. These were all once-fired Remington brass at the start of the experiment. None of the control group failed due to a loose primer pocket. Using a very similar load to the charge used in this testing, I've had Federal brass primer pockets too loose to be safe after 3 firings. If that ain't soft brass, I don't know what is.

It seems that neck-sizing is the key and annealing may be of limited value?

I haven't done empirical testing with annealing, but it does seem to extend the life of the brass slightly. I decided it wasn't worth an extra 2 firings at the end of the life cycle, so I no longer do it. I also notice a larger extreme spread for some unknown reason.