Private sales in-state without 4473?

[MrsGungho]

It doesn't sound like anyone knows of issues that have occurred, which was my main concern. I just realized most of my paperwork may be off the books by now (past 20 year retention req). However, I know of at least one dealer that went OOB so that form went to ATF which likely doesn't throw anything away.

I am an OOB FFL and yes, all records go to the BATFE, I was told they go to a warehouse and sit there, until needed. I was also told they are trying to get all these records into a digital system, told to me by the agent who assisted us during our time open, the break in and our closing.

Tracing, exactly that. Law enforcement agency contacts manufacturer, they give distribution name, they give FFL name who then gives name of person that did the BGC. I did numerous traces while we were open. Several who were friends who no longer had that firearm. LEO contacted them, they said it was sold, trace gone cold.

No need to worry about traces.

 

[Mr Evilwrench]

Pulling a stunt like that would be a deal breaker for me ... if I don't know the person I'm selling to, I need to verify that the name on the DL (proving IN resident), and the name on the LTCH (proving proper person) are a match ... no match, no sale.

That's no different than walking away from a bill of sale, you have to be comfortable with what you want. At least the driver's license has your picture on it.

 

[Topshot]

No need to worry about traces.

Excellent!

It's certainly been interesting to see the conflicting views on this subject and that there's no commonly accepted etiquette aside from agreeing on what both parties want in terms of paperwork if any before arranging to meet.

I think I'd want to see the name on DL and LTCH match even if I was the purchaser just to have a little peace that it's not as likely to be hot. That is unless it's a well known member here. Speaking of which, from a user experience standpoint, the Private Sales rating subforum that hasn't been used for years should have a sticky thread pointing to iTrader. It took me a while to find a FAQ link regarding iTrader but I'm puzzled why it's not mentioned in the Classified stickies.

 

[DoggyDaddy]

Excellent!

It's certainly been interesting to see the conflicting views on this subject and that there's no commonly accepted etiquette aside from agreeing on what both parties want in terms of paperwork if any before arranging to meet.

I think I'd want to see the name on DL and LTCH match even if I was the purchaser just to have a little peace that it's not as likely to be hot. That is unless it's a well known member here. Speaking of which, from a user experience standpoint, the Private Sales rating subforum that hasn't been used for years should have a sticky thread pointing to iTrader. It took me a while to find a FAQ link regarding iTrader but I'm puzzled why it's not mentioned in the Classified stickies.

Regarding iTrader, there's a link that says iTrader at the top of every forum page (the line under What's New, Forums and Shop INGO Gear). If you click on it, there's a drop-down menu where you can see an option to search for the member you're looking for.

 

[Ggreen]

Excellent!

It's certainly been interesting to see the conflicting views on this subject and that there's no commonly accepted etiquette aside from agreeing on what both parties want in terms of paperwork if any before arranging to meet.

I think I'd want to see the name on DL and LTCH match even if I was the purchaser just to have a little peace that it's not as likely to be hot. That is unless it's a well known member here. Speaking of which, from a user experience standpoint, the Private Sales rating subforum that hasn't been used for years should have a sticky thread pointing to iTrader. It took me a while to find a FAQ link regarding iTrader but I'm puzzled why it's not mentioned in the Classified stickies.

I've had sales fall through because they refused to even show ID. Which whatever, I get it I could see your address, but I have your phone number and your car and your license plate if I wanted... I show my id long enough for name and picture, I show my ltch long enough for name that is it. I do not put addresses on bos but I'll sign one with my name and the s/n's of the guns I see no harm there. Most people have facebooks that are wide open so a guy could just google your name and see pictures of your family etc... Most professionals have linkdin profiles that come up on google. We just don't live in a private time. If you arer really worried about privacy transfer through an ffl and eat the 10 - 30 dollar fee. If you are worried enough to require copy of id's, extensive personal info on a bos, it is worth the transfer fee.

Itrader is nice, but it is not always representative of a person. I have made multiple deals with a few guys on here that have a single negative for an explainable reason, so you definitely want to check the descriptions and cross reference with the negative reviewer.

 

[bwframe]

I've had sales fall through because they refused to even show ID...

Hopefully this is not at the meeting place?

Pulling a stunt like that would be a deal breaker for me ... if I don't know the person I'm selling to, I need to verify that the name on the DL (proving IN resident), and the name on the LTCH (proving proper person) are a match ... no match, no sale.

Everyone is entitled to their own personal requirements. Just to be clear though, you or any of us are not obligated to verify anything.

I believe that we are only required to not KNOWINGLY sell to out of state people or felons.

Myself, I check DL and LTCH if it feels like maybe I should. Often I don't. I have had a 17 year old INGOer try to buy a rifle.

 

[Seancass]

If somebody REFUSED to show ID, I'd walk away. That's just weird! I had to show ID to buy fuel injector cleaner, and booze, and paint. That would be too much of a red-flag.

It hasn't been a deal-breaker yet, but it bothers me when people are too business-like. If anyone is ever "Gun? Money? Bye" it would be raising flags. Hopefully I'd pick that out in the PM's before ever meeting.

 

[Topshot]

I'd prefer to meet at a range where they could shoot what I was selling or vice-versa (again unless it was a well known member). Too many things could be wrong internally that just looking at it wouldn't reveal.

 

[level0]

I understand they do the check at the same time but there is no need to record SN or any such info if it was just a BGC. It is titled as Firearm Transaction Record. I know our state doesn't register firearms which is why I had that in quotes. The fact remains that SN is tied to your name for 20 years. If you are not the original buyer then it's not an issue unless you had filled out a new 4473.

I take it there have been no cases where a former owner has been held liable for a firearm LEGALLY resold.

Emphasis added. As a data point, disclosure of SSN on 4473 is voluntary.

 

[WebSnyper]

Emphasis added. As a data point, disclosure of SSN on 4473 is voluntary.

I assume he was talking serial number as it was in reference to the firearm.

 

[Topshot]

I assume he was talking serial number as it was in reference to the firearm.

Correct, SN = serial number. Perhaps not a common abbreviation for most (?), but I've used it for decades because of my job.

 

[tbhausen]

If selling a handgun, you can bet I'll ensure the name on the Indiana DL and LTCH match. If that offends someone, sorry, but they can take a hike because I deal fairly and I'm a no-BS guy. That being said, I've had no issues here buying or selling anything. INGO has been nothing but a great place to learn and do business from my standpoint.

 

[goldtrigger]

I think the main thing is whatever you decide to do, make sure that you put the expectations in the ad itself. If you want a BOS, or to see LTCH, or to just see INDL, just put that upfront in the ad. That will help each party (seller and perspective buyer) and make the transaction go smoother.

 

[brucecrain]

ive brought and trade private in IN only using a bill of sale

 

[STFU]

If selling a handgun, you can bet I'll ensure the name on the Indiana DL and LTCH match. If that offends someone, sorry, but they can take a hike because I deal fairly and I'm a no-BS guy. That being said, I've had no issues here buying or selling anything. INGO has been nothing but a great place to learn and do business from my standpoint.

This ^^! I have no problem showing the match to prospective sellers and I would ask the same of prospective buyers. Agreed with your comments for learning and doing business. INGO has been great so far. That said, it took me a bit to figure out the iTrader portion. Good thing the FAQ covers it.

 

[JettaKnight]

All this BoS, DL, LTCH... too much for me.

If I sell you a gun, I expect you to start off on the bench at Calhoun and Main, there you will find a note underneath telling you where to go to drop the money - which must be in one dollar coins only. After dropping off the money, look for the rock that seems out of place. Under that rock will be an encrypted message. Once decrypted (you might need the help of a cryptoanalyst), you will now know the exact date on which you may pick up the gun and which lake I will drop it in.