Problem with Hornaday seating die and OAL

[hotfarmboy1]

I use the Hornaday leverevolution ammo in 357 mag for hunting. I recently started reloading that caliber. I have worked up good loads for target ammo already so I ordered some FTX .38 cal bullets and started on the hunting ammo.

I found out quickly that the Lee seating die for 357 mag does not work with these bullets, they are too pointed and it would deform the tips slightly. I checked out Midway usa and ordered the Hornaday seating die for this caliber, and the seating sleeve for this specific bullet.

Friday night I tried to get it setup to get the OAL at spec before doing anything else. I followed the directions to setting up this particular die. Then I'd seat a bullet, take a measurment, and if it was too long still, I'd turn the screw in a bit and try again. Sometimes it would stay at the same depth after adjusting the screw. Or sometimes without adjusting and trying a second time it would seat the bullet deeper. It was very weird, it seemed to not hold the same depth even though no adjustments might be made, or when an adjustment was made it really varied. Sometimes just a very small turn would be a very small amount, sometimes it would be a bigger amount for the same turn.

Anyone have any ideas?

 

[Leo]

Flex in a bullet tip makes a big problem when the seater presses on the tip. Some seating stems press on the ogive radius of the bullet where it is thick metal, that style works better.
You already tried the first trick, that is backing the crimping die out about two turns so it does not crimp at all and seat the bullets. After they are all seated to the right length, take the seater stem and adjuster out of the die and crimp the loads. This helps with soft tipped bullets.

In severe cases (like Hornaday A MAX rifle bullets) I get an extra seating stem from the Die manufacturer, and drill through the center so none of the stem touches the soft tip. I then fill the stem with bondo or a glue like devcon, and grease a bullet tip. By pishing the greased bullet into the soft glue, it makes a perfect female mold image. Let it set all night, and tomorrow you have a custom seating stem for that specific bullet. The parts from Lee are cheap enough, I ordered 1/2 a dozen each for three different calibers. Good Luck

 

[Rob377]

Sleeve seating dies use the ogive of the bullet. If were to get a bullet comparator, you'd see that the ogive will vary slightly from bullet to bullet. Even if you just measure the length of the bullet, I'll bet you'll see variances that will probably line up with the variances you're seeing.

Your measurements are using the tip, while the die is setting depth using the ogive. If you had perfectly consistent bullets with 0 runout variances, it wouldn't matter. But if the bullets aren't perfectly consistent, the seating reference point (ogive) and your OAL measuring reference point (tip) are different. Apples and oranges.

 

[WLW]

All good advice, but another tip I learned about FTX bullets. Hornady shortens their cases by a 1/10 " in the case of .44 mag (don't what they do for the .357) to meet OAL and get it to cycle properly in a rifle. I know they make FTX ammo for both handguns and rifles and I don't know if they shorten their cases for both applications or not. However, I would check into the starting case length and make sure you're meeting that requirement first.

 

[hotfarmboy1]

All good advice, but another tip I learned about FTX bullets. Hornady shortens their cases by a 1/10 " in the case of .44 mag (don't what they do for the .357) to meet OAL and get it to cycle properly in a rifle. I know they make FTX ammo for both handguns and rifles and I don't know if they shorten their cases for both applications or not. However, I would check into the starting case length and make sure you're meeting that requirement first.

Yeah I know they shortened the case length. I mostly use just cases that have been emptied from that ammo. But the other night when me and my friend were trying to set it up, the die was also damaging some of the cases. So we switched to the regular length cases just to get it setup. Since I don't have as many of the Hornaday cases from the LR ammo. After each try we would pull the bullet and try again.

 

[hotfarmboy1]

Sleeve seating dies use the ogive of the bullet. If were to get a bullet comparator, you'd see that the ogive will vary slightly from bullet to bullet. Even if you just measure the length of the bullet, I'll bet you'll see variances that will probably line up with the variances you're seeing.

Your measurements are using the tip, while the die is setting depth using the ogive. If you had perfectly consistent bullets with 0 runout variances, it wouldn't matter. But if the bullets aren't perfectly consistent, the seating reference point (ogive) and your OAL measuring reference point (tip) are different. Apples and oranges.

He's right on the seating sleeve using the ogive to seat the bullet. This sleeve is meant specifically for the FTX and Amax bullets of this caliber, so as to not damage the tip.

I will have to look into getting a bullet comparator and see what I can find.

The weird part is, we do the first try of seating the bullet, then measure. Then without making any adjustments, we put it back in, and press the handle again, and it presses in further normally. This shouldn't happen should it?

That or I can get it set where I want to and then try another bullet and case to confirm and it either doesn't set it in far enough, or sets it in too far. Its just being very inconsistent. Sadly the setup is at my friend's house and I won't get to mess with it till this weekend. I was just hoping to get some ideas to try before then.

 

[Rob377]

He's right on the seating sleeve using the ogive to seat the bullet. This sleeve is meant specifically for the FTX and Amax bullets of this caliber, so as to not damage the tip.

I will have to look into getting a bullet comparator and see what I can find.

The weird part is, we do the first try of seating the bullet, then measure. Then without making any adjustments, we put it back in, and press the handle again, and it presses in further normally. This shouldn't happen should it?

That or I can get it set where I want to and then try another bullet and case to confirm and it either doesn't set it in far enough, or sets it in too far. Its just being very inconsistent. Sadly the setup is at my friend's house and I won't get to mess with it till this weekend. I was just hoping to get some ideas to try before then.

The other thing that might be throwing your measurements off is, if you're loading on a progressive, whether there are casing in each station.

On my LNL and my SDB before it, I'd get an OAL that was shorter by a few thousandths if there was no case in the sizing station.

 

[forthehousew]

Kind of like the idea of drilling out an extra stem and using glue I used to use hard wax. I had to replacd it every so often but it did work for soft lead hollow points, since you have a OAL issue the drilling out a spare seating stem sounds like a great idea.

 

[hotfarmboy1]

The other thing that might be throwing your measurements off is, if you're loading on a progressive, whether there are casing in each station.

On my LNL and my SDB before it, I'd get an OAL that was shorter by a few thousandths if there was no case in the sizing station.

Nope, single stage Lee press.

I haven't had any other problem using my lee dies when loading other kinds of bullets.

 

[straight-shooter]

I have some Varmint .223 bullets that give me fits. The Ogive or outside diameter of the bullet varies from each bullet. So in essence the seater die is contacting each bullet at a different position and pushing it into the case either more or less of a depth. It makes sense once you give it some thought.