Pros and Cons of an AR 11.5" upper

[sloughfoot]

This is my final comment on the subject. I own 16 and 20 inch AR's.

I can accomplish any mission with either rifle as a civilian toter of rifle. I greatly prefer the 20 inch for any use I might need a rifle for. The 16 inch fits in the tour pack on my Harley though, so I always have something with me in my travels. The 20 inch is just too long.

The Marine Corps still uses the 20 inch because Marines are Riflemen. I am a rifleman. I also am proficient with my pistols out to great ranges.

Regards to you all. We will go on our merry way and remain...friends.

 

[phylodog]

No reason not to be friends.

I have no issue with anyone who wants to carry a 16", 18" or 20" rifle. If it suits their purpose and they are proficient with it more power to them. This thread was about the pro's & cons of the 11.5 SBR, a request for factual information.

 

[indianaarsenal]

I have an 11.5" commando in .556 and a 10.5" DOE in 9mm both are SBR and fun to shoot and get peoples attention at the range. However, I would never use a NFA regestered weapon for home defence. the whole "excessive force" thing comes to mind. especially in this political climate. every crime has a machinegun and a bazooka involved according to the news... but that is just my .02... I have a nice old side by side 16 Ga that works well with #6 shot and do not have a real issue with over penetration, also works well for shock and awe. that thing shoots 3 feet of flame out the barrel and is loud as hell. at 12 feet there is not much left of a man size paper target.. after that is a handgun with the red laser sight.

 

[indianaarsenal]

I was joking about the bazooka by the way....

 

[KJQ6945]

Loved the videos Jon, moving 10 pounds of steel
at better than 600 says it all. I'm sure my house isn't
more than 500 max, I've only got 2 acres! A 20" gun
would be like over compensating. 10.3 will work around
here.

 

[netsecurity]

I had an 11.5. Hated it. LOUD AS H3LL. It seemed to throw the brass twice as far as most M4's. Shot a flame a foot long out the barrel (terrible for night ops).

Would be good for intended purpose, which is HD, but expect a ruptured ear drum without hearing protection.

Sloughfoot I believe was referring to the "drop out" technique, which is very easy with a 16" barrel, and the stock fully retracted.

 

[jwfuhrman]

Idk what you guys are using that are causing so many problems but I have yet to have issues with my 11.5, and tons of others on another forum are in the same boat as myself.... maybe it has something to do with the fact of ammo choices(ie, I dont shoot Wolf, and I handload all my ammo to XM193 velocity with Varget, that may help).

 

[indyjoe]

Looking at the velocities, I was surprised to see only a ~500 fps drop from 20" to 10.5" barrels. 3250 down to 2740 fps. The difference is less moving up to a 62 grain from a 55 grain.

Bore pressure at exit is almost double, so it will be MUCH louder. Also seems like it would be more affected by a bad crown, when it comes to accuracy. A lower pressure at bullet exit will also make it easier to suppress.

I expected much more velocity loss with 9.5" of barrel gone. Consider me educated.

 

[Hop]

I don't remember the exact details but at the Appleseed held at Camp Atterbury last go around one guy was shooting a SBR and at 200 yds he wasn't penetrating the cardboard backer. The guys in the pits were having to use their pocket knife to make a hole in order to put the markers in.
I'll restate, I don't know the particulars with the exact length of his barrel, or the ammo he was shooting so this can be a very misleading post....that said, not being able to penetrate the backer at 200 yards is pretty eye opening.

I thought we found he was skipping rounds off of the berm with that SBR? No? I had my DD MK18 10.3" SBR with me but didn't get it out to play. I stayed with my iron sighted 20" A2 both days.

 

[indyjoe]

I thought we found he was skipping rounds off of the berm with that SBR? No? I had my DD MK18 10.3" SBR with me but didn't get it out to play. I stayed with my iron sighted 20" A2 both days.

That would make more sense to me. I can't see a round powerful enough to cycle a 10" AR, not going through the backer at 200 yards.

 

[the1kidd03]

This is my final comment on the subject. I own 16 and 20 inch AR's.

I can accomplish any mission with either rifle as a civilian toter of rifle. I greatly prefer the 20 inch for any use I might need a rifle for. The 16 inch fits in the tour pack on my Harley though, so I always have something with me in my travels. The 20 inch is just too long.

The Marine Corps still uses the 20 inch because Marines are Riflemen. I am a rifleman. I also am proficient with my pistols out to great ranges.

Regards to you all. We will go on our merry way and remain...friends.

We still use 20" cuz the Dept. of Navy is too cheap to fork over additional $$ for new gear. If it were up to the men in the dirt, the majority would have 16" instead of just a select few.

 

[the1kidd03]

But I have NEVER searched a building with the barrel horizontal to the ground. There is a technique that is used to defeat the ambusher waiting for that long or short barrel to appear in the doorway. And it does not include barrel up or straight forward.

I won't talk much more about that on this forum.

Why not? How is information supposed to be shared, reviewed, revised, etc. and how are better methods ever to be developed if all the current data remains "hush, hush?"

 

[pftraining_in]

I don't remember the exact details but at the Appleseed held at Camp Atterbury last go around one guy was shooting a SBR and at 200 yds he wasn't penetrating the cardboard backer.

I have seen a 10.3 LMT hold a 3" pattern, shooting a 4 MOA Aimpoint, at 300 yards and punch nice holes in paper at Atterbury. The same gun also only has a 1" deviation in POA with a can attached at 100 yards. The issue you seen at Atterbury would be a skip or bad ammo issue, not a gun issue.