Pumping gas scenario

[SSGSAD]

jdhaines..... Good points, something I do, is wash my windows, with my left hand, while I have my right hand on my cc weapon.....

MAY not work for others, but I like it .....

Walking around the van, and scanning the entire parking lot .....

And I ALWAYS, sit with my back to a wall .....

Easier to fight my way OUT !!!!!

I can see everything / one coming at me .....

 

[Tomahawkman]

When I stop to fill up 95% of the time its dark as I just got out of work so usually about 10:45 ish. My issue is I am a security guard (unarmed) and when I leave work I'm in my uniform. Cant carry gun on me while in uniform. When I get to the pump I roll down driver window and set my gun on the front seat and close the door partially while looking around the whole time its filling up. I have had only one instance at any gas station where I felt like there was a real problem but talked my way out of it before it got too crazy.

When not working and I'm filling up I always carry my glock 19 AIWB. But also keep a sig 226 or 1911 in the truck as well so I have a more accessible firearm when sitting down. "Two is one and one is none."

 

[DWS]

.... But also keep a sig 226 or 1911 in the truck as well so I have a more accessible firearm when sitting down. "Two is one and one is none."

If I didn't know any better... I'd swear this kid was related to me....

 

[Cameramonkey]

Cackling while pumping fuel is a defense in itself....

So is arguing with the car while you pump. Sometimes out crazy-ing the crazies works. (not sure if purple)

(yes I'm late to the party)

 

[JettaKnight]

When I stop to fill up 95% of the time its dark as I just got out of work so usually about 10:45 ish. My issue is I am a security guard (unarmed) and when I leave work I'm in my uniform. Cant carry gun on me while in uniform. When I get to the pump I roll down driver window and set my gun on the front seat and close the door partially while looking around the whole time its filling up. I have had only one instance at any gas station where I felt like there was a real problem but talked my way out of it before it got too crazy.

When not working and I'm filling up I always carry my glock 19 AIWB. But also keep a sig 226 or 1911 in the truck as well so I have a more accessible firearm when sitting down. "Two is one and one is none."

This adage doesn't work when applied to children.

Guns yes...

 

[SMiller]

I've been following this and can't sit back any longer. I'm going to break my reply into a couple different topics.

Mobility / Movement
First things first, lets try to get out of the old habit of carrying on tired gun-guy mantras. Forget "back to the wall of the restaurant", "I'll fight with my back in a corner so I can't get surprised.", and "no one gets within 21 feet of me." They are total crap. Remember the saying "movement is life." What you want are decisions and options that give you freedom to move and make future decisions. I have to go completely opposite of eldirector here and into the corner with EdC. Pinning yourself between a door and a hose is insane. You are locking yourself into a box where you have very limited decisions. Guys accosting you at a gas station aren't usually trying to shoot/knife/punch you...they want to interact with you and get what they want. They can talk past a hose. They can intimidate past a hose. Give yourself options. Two examples:

1. Get out, lock the doors, keys in the pocket, and get your gas. Then while the pump is running make a show out of circling the car and kicking the tires. Push down on the hood, inspect the windshield wipers, etc. It would look perfectly normal to anyone watching. Also you're doing a 360 circle around the vehicle and recognizing anything unusual around you. If you have kids/wife/husband in the car...it doesn't matter. If someone starts to panhandle you, deal with them, circle away from the car. The kids are safe in a steel box with locked doors. If the guy peels off of you and heads for the car...game on. But at least you tried to lead them away and if you need to go light things off when the guy flips the door handle of your driver's door at least the security cameras are going to show your side of the story. The car won't get that hot or cold in the time it takes to pump gas.
2. If you have to take care of something after the gas is done, start the car, lock the doors, put it in gear, seat belt on, and sit there as long as it takes to text the wife, balance the checkbook, or beat the kids. If someone taps on the window you're a foot movement away from pulling out. No starting, no deciding, etc. Just push the skinny one on the right and go.

These are simple examples, but they work and illustrate my point. Options, specifically non-gun options are the thing we want to maximize.

Situational Awareness

As a follow-on to the above notes, stop thinking about situational awareness as a thing. It isn't. The pointy spear guys who are "switched on" all the time end up with mental and life issues because of it. Just be a normal human being and admit that sometimes you have laser focus to the slightest rustle of leaves all around you...and other times you're in condition brown and your awareness is about as wide as an iphone screen. Let's just deal with it. Point 2 above is a way to deal with it. Don't get out to pump gas if you have things that need your attention in the vehicle. Deal with them in a safe manner, then deal with your gas. If someone pulls in close to you and you realize the location in which you are standing has become a little crowded...move. When you are in a compromised position, take steps to be sure you are safe. Don't be the classic gun guy who thinks he's always paying attention...you aren't that guy. One of the best instructors I've ever met said "Be honest about the problem, and then do the work." It's a simple line that encompasses the entire problem and solution. We all understand how people behave at gas stations. Be honest about how you behave, and do some work to think of a better solution. The answer is not to open the doors as a barrier, or only go to lighted gas stations, or only go to empty gas stations, or never let your tank get below 7/8ths, or only use the furthest pump, or any other silly damn ideas people are throwing out without any thought because they heard another gun guy say them once. These "tips" are not how real people live. So be honest about the situation and think about honest solutions.

Training

There are many trainers and classes that cover this area very well, and from different angles. I'm not one to hawk my wares in dumb places but past students will back me up that this exact scenario is covered in detail for between 3 and 8 hours of the 8 hour class. We're doing one that is sold out in Indy soon so there will be more "past students" on here that can verify what I'm saying. Aside from that, early trainers in this space include Craig Douglas, Paul Sharp, Larry Lindenman, Cecil Burch, etc among the TPI crowd. Shay at Mindset Labs covers this problem albeit from a slightly different (though no less important) direction. Other force on force trainers can provide solutions to pieces of the puzzle. Some long time LEOs, psychologists, and detectives have answers to these problems if they take the time to figure out a way to teach what they've learned and used over many years interacting with the public. I've seen lots of guys be able to solve these problems but not be able to explain to someone else how it all works. The good news for everyone is this area is becoming increasingly popular among trainers and more classes are popping up. We'll have to be aware of ****birds in the space...but they seem to be few and far between at this point. The danger of bandwagon-jumpers is something we've seen in every other training fad and this will be no different.

To avoid this being simply a pitch, I'll throw out some help. To succeed in this area there are a few skill sets you should try to shore up. Verbal agility is a huge one. If you can keep up a conversation with a random stranger about random things while using a small amount of brain power...it's easier to stay ahead of the curve. Lawyers, salesman, and medium-to-long term cops seem to have an edge here. Most of us normal people need to practice it. Another skill is a solid understanding of our own faults in behavior. If you are one of the common people who grab your phone and are absorbed when you hear a text...know that - own it - and take steps so it doesn't get you hurt. If you let people in close too easily and are too trusting...understand that, but build a safety net into your framework for dealing with the public. Lastly is have a framework. Have a plan that takes care of interacting with a stranger, learns their intentions, sets up a good case if things do go sideways, and gives you a fixed non-diagnostic way to handle the start of a fight that might happen. Have this framework in place ahead of time so you aren't trying to think and add layers of decisions on decisions. Hick's law can be a real ***** if you let it.

This ended up a little snarky and no offense intended at the guys I mentioned above (eldirector, et al). I'm going to let it ride though because I think it's important information.

Like a boss, this guy can teach you how to work yourself out of any situation!

 

[Bfish]

Man all I can say after reading from all of you Indy guys is that I'm glad I don't have any such issues where I live.

 

[SMiller]

Man all I can say after reading from all of you Indy guys is that I'm glad I don't have any such issues where I live.

I live in the sticks, hell I even have my own fuel tank and don't fill up in town.

Having said that problems happen everywhere, just because you don't fill your tank in some big city at night doesn't mean the same problems cannot happen to you.

 

[churchmouse]

I live in the sticks, hell I even have my own fuel tank and don't fill up in town.

Having said that problems happen everywhere, just because you don't fill your tank in some big city at night doesn't mean the same problems cannot happen to you.

Bad guys do travel. They are everywhere and are opportunists. I have seen nefarious looking crap bags in small towns and rural areas.
With the growing Meth problem they are everywhere.

 

[foszoe]

I live in the sticks, hell I even have my own fuel tank and don't fill up in town.

Having said that problems happen everywhere, just because you don't fill your tank in some big city at night doesn't mean the same problems cannot happen to you.

I am more worried about Meth heads coming out of my woods, but when travelling etc, there are times when interacting with people just can't be avoided!

 

[Thor]

I travel all the time...all over the country...they are everywhere. And yes, even in the woods.

The only place I've seen them thin out is in the desert where all life tends to thin out...and sometimes it's the ones who live there that are crazy...there was one place by Death Valley I stopped earlier this year that I wouldn't want to spend the night at...even though they offered a 'campsite' and 'free' cold water.

 

[cedartop]

I travel all the time...all over the country...they are everywhere. And yes, even in the woods.

The only place I've seen them thin out is in the desert where all life tends to thin out...and sometimes it's the ones who live there that are crazy...there was one place by Death Valley I stopped earlier this year that I wouldn't want to spend the night at...even though they offered a 'campsite' and 'free' cold water.

That sounds like a scene out of one of those horror movies.

 

[Thor]

That sounds like a scene out of one of those horror movies.

Yeah, I wasn't alone and the guy who was with me wanted to see the advertised (small sign by the road...arrow pointing up dirt track) 'ghost town'. There were the remains of an old post office for a transient mining town that died long ago. What was still there was more than a bit eerie.

 

[cosermann]

I usually circle around the car. Helps me get a good look at things and minimize my blind spots. Try to minimize unnecessary task fixation (a real challenge at gas stations). But, as JD mentioned, lots going on here with regard to how you manage unknown contacts, etc.

 

[rhino]

I travel all the time...all over the country...they are everywhere. And yes, even in the woods.

The only place I've seen them thin out is in the desert where all life tends to thin out...and sometimes it's the ones who live there that are crazy...there was one place by Death Valley I stopped earlier this year that I wouldn't want to spend the night at...even though they offered a 'campsite' and 'free' cold water.

That sounds like a scene out of one of those horror movies.

I see even one guy with an underbite and a goofy eye and I'm de-a**ing the area immediately!