Question about Buying a gun

[TJSaltdog]

Is it the law that you have to pay for the gun before they send your info on the phone. Every time I bought a gun, I always had to pay for it first. One place I bought had a sign that said if you are refused you will not get all your money back. Is this legal? Being refused and being delayed are two different things.

 

[stephen87]

I don't believe they can deny you all of your money back if you are denied. The shop that I buy from calls it in and THEN rings you up, if I remember correctly.

 

[Slawburger]

On my last purchase they called it in first and then rang up the sale.

 

[MikeDVB]

I wouldn't pay before they do the NICS check. I'm not worried about not passing, but it's simply a shady business practice IMHO and I would avoid it.

 

[Combsie]

I don't believe they can deny you all of your money back if you are denied. The shop that I buy from calls it in and THEN rings you up, if I remember correctly.

 

[TheFireArmorer]

I've never had to pay before a store calls nics. I'm pretty sure there is no way a shop could keep someone's money if they are denied.

 

[MrsGungho]

Why would it be illegal? You have bought the gun. The gun store has nothing to do with whether you take it home or not. If you are denied, the gun is still yours. You pay a restocking fee if you choose to not file an appeal and return the gun. How many places charge a restocking fee? I do believe there are just a few out there.

 

[sloughfoot]

Technically, you are not a purchaser of the firearm unless you have paid for it in full. The NICS check can only be run for a purchaser. Down or partial payments don't warrant a NICS check.

Keeping money is a store policy and I find no fault with it.

 

[poppy]

Never had to pay for the gun, either rifle, shotgun or pistol first. Filled out the required paperwork, then call was made, then approved and finally paid after the ffl person got the approval. Never had an issue with prepaying.

 

[MikeDVB]

Technically, you are not a purchaser of the firearm unless you have paid for it in full. The NICS check can only be run for a purchaser. Down or partial payments don't warrant a NICS check.

Keeping money is a store policy and I find no fault with it.

Where does it say that money has to change hands before a NICS check can be run? It's my understanding the NICS check has to be run before a *TRANSFER* can happen from an *FFL* to an *INDIVIDUAL*. If you can show me where it says purchase instead of transfer, I'll be happy to admit to being incorrect. There is no requirement of fund changing hands for the transfer to take place, unless I'm mistaken be it before or after the NICS.

The fact of the matter is, as I understand it [and I could be wrong] is that the transfer itself is what requires the NICS check - the purchase itself does not. You do not have to hand over money before they run the NICS just as they don't have to transfer the firearm to you/sell it to you if they get a *PROCEED* back from the NICS. They could still choose not to do business with you and not to sell the firearm to you and, as such, not to transfer it to you.

I prefer this order:
Fill out 4473, NICS proceed, pay for firearm, receive firearm.

There are surely others that do the payment first, then the 4473, then the NICS, then the transfer - but it's not a shop that I would use.

 

[junior438]

if you think or know that you are going to be or have a chance of being refused, then why would you want to take the chance on losing money?

 

[LarryC]

Technically, you are not a purchaser of the firearm unless you have paid for it in full. The NICS check can only be run for a purchaser. Down or partial payments don't warrant a NICS check.

This is not true - there is nothing in the ATF laws that state this. In EVERY (and there have been several) purchase I have made, I filled out the NICS check, the FFL called it in and AFTER approval, I paid for and was handed the firearm. The law just states that the NICS check must be approved (or if delayed the wait time passed) before the firearm may be transferred.

Keeping money is a store policy and I find no fault with it.

I would never purchase from a dealer that made me pay before he ran the NICS check with the proviso that I would pay a "restocking fee" if the check wasn't approved - just on principal. I have never been denied or delayed - and do hold a FFL-03 (which may be why I am not delayed).

 

[DFM914]

Is it the law that you have to pay for the gun before they send your info on the phone. Every time I bought a gun, I always had to pay for it first. One place I bought had a sign that said if you are refused you will not get all your money back. Is this legal? Being refused and being delayed are two different things.

This is crap, I would turn around and leave if they told me that. How is it restocking if it never left the store? I have bought many guns and have never been told this.

 

[Dirtebiker]

Having the customer pay before the NICS check, helps keep down the number of those who know (or think) they are inelligble, hoping to get by somehow, and wasting the FFL's time.

 

[LarryC]

Why would it be illegal?
Normally laws on contracts do have something that requires both parties agree to and are given something - if nothing is granted to one party, the contract is usually considered void by the courts!

You have bought the gun. The gun store has nothing to do with whether you take it home or not. If you are denied, the gun is still yours.

It is NOT YOURS, the gun must remain in the ownership and possession of the Dealer

You pay a restocking fee if you choose to not file an appeal and return the gun. YOU CAN NOT TAKE POSSESSION OF THE GUN - how can you return it?

How many places charge a restocking fee? I do believe there are just a few out there.

It can't be "removed" from "stock" until transferred to another owner. Therefore there should not/can't be a "RE-stocking" fee!

I often purchase firearms on a "whim" when I am many miles from home. If for some reason I am "Delayed". I probably would not wish to drive 150 mile round trip to purchase the firearm. Even though it wouldn't be their fault, it also obviously wouldn't be my fault as I hold a current FFL-03.

I would be pretty irate if the shop refused to refund my money! WON"T HAPPEN WITH ME.

 

[LarryC]

Having the customer pay before the NICS check, helps keep down the number of those who know (or think) they are inelligble, hoping to get by somehow, and wasting the FFL's time.

I would seriously doubt this occurs. Main reason is that any "DENIED" application to the NICS is kept on record forever - (all pass or delayed must be destroyed in a few days), It is very possible that anyone that was denied with a felony would receive a visit from the ATF - especially if they applied more than once!
Maybe Bradis or some other dealer will chime in on this thread - I'm quite sure they could shed some light on these questions!

 

[Manatee]

Normally, a full-service shop won't collect fees before the NICS check. However, the record-keeping is still required on a denial and there is time involved in the phone call/computer check. So, the customer actually received some "value". Many of us don't charge separately for background checks. Some establish a fee as part of the sale and it is non-refundable. You would expect that the "all-in" price of the dealer to be competitive however he splits it up.

As to the ATF/FBI following up on denials...you haven't been following the press, have you?

 

[LANShark42]

Never had to pay for the gun, either rifle, shotgun or pistol first. Filled out the required paperwork, then call was made, then approved and finally paid after the ffl person got the approval. Never had an issue with prepaying.

Last 3 guns I've purchased (all at GM), this was the protocol^^^.

 

[terrythegamer]

I've never had to pay before a check was ran and wouldn't pay before either sounds like the place is trying to scam people out of their money how can you prove if you were approved and they said you weren't but kept your money?
By the way where did this occur?

 

[kalboy]

This is amazing, I do business with several shops in both Indiana and Kentucky, a couple of very high volume ones included and have never heard of being charged before a call in was performed.
I think you would be wise to take your business elsewhere and avoid such shady dealers if at all possible.