Question about trusts and ATF 41F

[stephen87]

Let's say I amended my trust so I, along with my son who is the beneficiary, is on the trust. I buy an NFA item AFTER 41F takes effect. I later amend my trust to add people to the trust. DO they then have to go fingerprinted and such to be added to the trust?

 

[Jtgarner]

according to my understanding, no. Not unless you add other NFA items to the trust after adding those people.

 

[stephen87]

That was my understanding as well. I'm gonna talk to the lawyer that drafted my trust and post the answer. I have four people on my trust, so this would make getting a new NFA item a timely process.

 

[gunworks321]

That was my understanding as well. I'm gonna talk to the lawyer that drafted my trust and post the answer. I have four people on my trust, so this would make getting a new NFA item a timely process.

And isn't that the ultimate goal?

 

[Gluemanz28]

I have been wanting to get a trust set up myself and have procrastinated. Is it too late?

 

[CampingJosh]

I have been wanting to get a trust set up myself and have procrastinated. Is it too late?

No. A trust can be created in a day easily.

 

[Thegeek]

Reduce to two, buy new item, raise it back to four. Rinse/repeat.

Another astounding example of a law that effectively does nothing.....

 

[stephen87]

Reduce to two, buy new item, raise it back to four. Rinse/repeat.

Another astounding example of a law that effectively does nothing.....

That's effectively my question. I have no problem going through the process, however I don't want to drag three more people downtown with me to have them go through the process as well. All of them are eligible to possess the firearms, it's just too timely to take four people downtown to have fingerprints and passport photos run, because of some arbitrary rule created by a non-legislative branch, just to make my wait for my legally possessed firearms that much longer because Obama doesn't think we should have it.

 

[milton]

I've pondered this also, and am curious what an attorney has to say about this.

 

[CountryBoy19]

Still a PITA to reduce the number, buy item, increase back up because I believe every time it's amended the new trustees must be present and sign the amendment in front a notary. Am I mistaken?

That being said, could a person effectively "bypass" this by having a trust within a trust? Trust 1 (top-level) has all the trustees listed and "owns" trust #2. Trust #2 has just 1 trustee that does the buying etc. ATF wouldn't even have to know that Trust #2 is held within Trust #1, for all they know Trust #2 is the only one. Is my "legal logic" flawed?

 

[SteveM4A1]

I don't see why they would need to sign in front of a notary when they didn't when the trust was formed? I would ask your NFA trust attorney for clarification.

 

[stephen87]

Still a PITA to reduce the number, buy item, increase back up because I believe every time it's amended the new trustees must be present and sign the amendment in front a notary. Am I mistaken?

That being said, could a person effectively "bypass" this by having a trust within a trust? Trust 1 (top-level) has all the trustees listed and "owns" trust #2. Trust #2 has just 1 trustee that does the buying etc. ATF wouldn't even have to know that Trust #2 is held within Trust #1, for all they know Trust #2 is the only one. Is my "legal logic" flawed?

My trustees do not need to be present when notarized. I am the only one that has to sign it since I I am the owner of the trust.

 

[dudley0]

Had not considered this aspect. So I guess that after July of this year I need to amend my trust to remove all but me?

Then I can add them back in after the forms are sent in?

Brilliant.

Let us know what your attorney says. I will draft a letter to mine when I can.

 

[CountryBoy19]

I don't see why they would need to sign in front of a notary when they didn't when the trust was formed? I would ask your NFA trust attorney for clarification.

My trustees do not need to be present when notarized. I am the only one that has to sign it since I I am the owner of the trust.

Computer generated trust or attorney written? My attorney written trust was written so that trustees must also sign the amendment and it must be done in front of witnesses and notarized.

Either way, the question still stands, is there any reason the trust can't be within a trust?

 

[stephen87]

I have no clue about the trust within the trust, legalities or purpose.

However, my trust was written by Marc Halata. There are four of us on the trust and the notary ad I were the only ones that needed to sign.

 

[tatic05]

I have no clue about the trust within the trust, legalities or purpose.

However, my trust was written by Marc Halata. There are four of us on the trust and the notary ad I were the only ones that needed to sign.

Same lawyer here and same situation when it was notarized.

 

[milton]

Same lawyer here and same situation when it was notarized.

Yep, same here.

 

[ljk]

My trust was written by Grant Liston, signatures on the trust are mine and the NP.

 

[Bfish]

Reduce to two, buy new item, raise it back to four. Rinse/repeat.

Another astounding example of a law that effectively does nothing.....

This is what I was thinking too!

 

[hmaverick]

Anyone who has questions about trusts or ATF 41F can give me a call or an email anytime. Happy to explain it to anyone!

Marc Halata
708.307.7973
marc@halatalaw.com