Question for LEO's about LTCH encounters?

[Bunnykid68]

1) If you get pulled over you should have all your papers in order before the LEO gets to your vehicle.

2) If you hand the LEO your LTCH with your papers there should be no need for any conversation about the firearm unless the LEO is just interested in what you are carrying. There is a court case(eludes me now) that says presentation of the LTCH should end all questioning concerning the firearm

 

[wally05]

1) If you get pulled over you should have all your papers in order before the LEO gets to your vehicle.

2) If you hand the LEO your LTCH with your papers there should be no need for any conversation about the firearm unless the LEO is just interested in what you are carrying. There is a court case(eludes me now) that says presentation of the LTCH should end all questioning concerning the firearm

What If I wanted to know if your M&P had an Apex trigger kit or what kind of holster you had?

 

[lilruckus]

my question is do you give the officer your LTCH with your drivers license or do you wait to be asked for it?

 

[Concerned Citizen]

1) If you get pulled over you should have all your papers in order before the LEO gets to your vehicle.

^^^This^^^ is one reason I don't inform. Whenever I am pulled over, I "assume the position"; Truck engine off, widow down, both hands at 11 & 1 on steering wheel, with my license & registration in my left hand ready to present. I then just shut up and answer any questions politely & professionally. I do nothing to make the officer nervous, I do not take him pulling me over personally, & I show him the utmost respect. I believe most LEO's will recognize and appreciate this effort.

You might feel better about informing, some officers might prefer you inform. It is my legal right not to inform, and I will most certainly exercise that right.

 

[Arod529]

Really? Nobody's taken a swing at this one yet? Wow.

We don't really have a firearms community, not that I know of anyway. We just recently got about 3 new ranges, but they're mostly designed around tourism. I almost never go to them, just find a quiet spot in the desert.

 

[Hurley]

A personal choice

The bottom line is that it is a personal choice whether you inform the LEO or not in Indiana. You are not required to do so, and if you choose not to inform, good on you. If you decide to inform, also good on you.

I personally will always hand the officer my LTCH pink card along with my drivers license, my choice. I have recommended to my wife that she do the same. From my point of view, I have nothing to hide and I don't want any surprises that may lead to weapons from LEOs to be pointed in my face if something unintended happens.

 

[kjf48197]

I thought it didn't matter anymore. I know there is a thread on here about LTCH and drivers license being tied together somehow? Anyway I wouldn't tell because there is no legal obligation to but, as was said earlier, if I was asked to get out I probably would just to be polite.

 

[JB357Mag]

If its concealed and not apt to be seen, then its up to you. If its somewhere you are about to reach, you don't want it to be a surprise to me.

As an example, if you have a pistol sitting in your glovebox on top of your registration, tell me. If you just reach for it without saying anything, I'm getting you out of your car at gunpoint. I know, I've done it.

On the other side, I've had people tell me immediately that they were armed and hand me their permit. I told them to leave their hands on their steering wheel while I was away from the car and didn't take the weapon. Other officers will take it for the duration of the stop. Twice I've had to end up taking the gun anyway, both was because the person had a warrant (neither violent, one was traffic and the other was check fraud).

Indiana doesn't require you inform, just have some common sense about it and ask what you'd think about your actions.

Thanks, this is the insight I was looking for.

I want to stand up for my rights but I also want to have a traffic stop
and go about my day afterwards.

Jimmy

 

[cosermann]

With reference to post #7, for those of us who may find themselves in Michigan - Michigan courts have ruled that merely presenting one's LTCH along with one's driver's license does NOT adequate immediate notice that you're carrying.

I don't have the ruling at my finger tips, but filed it away in my memory because I thought (at the time) that it was a stupid ruling.

In Michigan, I would immediately disclose verbally, while handing over my licenses and registration.

Michigan code:
"28.425f Concealed pistol license; possession; disclosure to police officer; violation; penalty; seizure; forfeiture; "peace officer" defined.

Sec. 5f. (1) An individual who is licensed under this act to carry a concealed pistol shall have his or her license to carry that pistol in his or her possession at all times he or she is carrying a concealed pistol.

(2) An individual who is licensed under this act to carry a concealed pistol and who is carrying a concealed pistol shall show both of the following to a peace officer upon request by that peace officer:

(a) His or her license to carry a concealed pistol.

(b) His or her driver license or Michigan personal identification card.

(3) An individual licensed under this act to carry a concealed pistol and who is carrying a concealed pistol and who is stopped by a peace officer shall immediately disclose to the peace officer that he or she is carrying a pistol concealed upon his or her person or in his or her vehicle."

So again, in Michigan - present your LTCH, your driver's license, and SAY SOMETHING.

Thankfully we have no such idiotic law in Indiana.

Update: Still can't find the case. However, I did find this excerpt at handgunlaw.us. So, I didn't imagine it.

"In one recent case, the driver handed his CPL over to the officer who stopped him. He did this because he had been told by a reliable source (an experienced police officer from another jurisdiction) that it is considered dangerous to use the word "gun" when talking to an officer on the road side since officers yell, "Gun!" to one another when a dangerous person displays a firearm. The driver was ticketed for the non-disclosure. In subsequent trial, the dashboard video camera record showed that it was approximately 40 seconds after the officer arrived at the driver's window that the driver verbally disclosed his concealed pistol.

The court found that the simple act of handing over the CPL was not adequate disclosure and that the 40-second delay before verbally disclosing was not "immediate disclosure."

Source: http://www.handgunlaw.us/states/michigan.pdf

Just one more reason that I'll never willingly move back to Michigan.

 

[red46239]

FWIW, I was pulled over a year or so ago (shortly after receiving my LTCH) by an IMPD officer. I was OCing on my right hip, out of the LEO's vision and did not inform him of such. After our business was concluded (speeding ticket for me...) I had the following conversation:

Me: "Can I ask you question real quick?"
LEO: "Sure"
Me: "I have my License to Carry a Handgun and as I understand it I am not required to notify you that I am carrying a firearm, is this correct?"
LEO: "That is correct"
Me: "Would you prefer to be notified?"
LEO: "Yes I would"
Me: "What is the best way to notify you? I'm sure that you don't want me saying 'hey, I have gun in here....'"
LEO: (snickers) "No, don't do that... I would suggest just simply handing your Carry License over with your license & registration"
Me: "Makes sense, thanks for your time"
LEO: "Have a nice day... and slow down"

I'm sure I don't have our conversation verbatim, but you get the idea. I was curious to hear it from the "horse's mouth". I haven't been pulled over since, but I will probably do as he suggests simply to avoid any issues should he find out that I do have firearms in the vehicle.

 

[Sims]

1) If you get pulled over you should have all your papers in order before the LEO gets to your vehicle.

Gotta disagree with this. I have several LEO friends, and the all tell me that they really don't like this, especially at night. They don't know you from Adam and have no idea what you are reaching for.

If stopped, immediately roll down your window, if it's dark, turn on your dome light. If you have tinted windows, roll down the driver's side rear window as well.
Put your hands on the wheel and KEEP THEM THERE. When asked for license and registration, let the office know where you are reaching.

If you want to give him your LTCH then, that's up to you.

But the last thing you should be doing is digging for license and registration as the LEO is approaching.

/my $.02

And as an aside: I used to go digging for the info to have ready whenever I got stopped (had a bit of a leadfoot in my youth). Got a ticket every time. The first time I handled a stop the way I described above, I got my first warning. Could be a coincidence, I don't know.

 

[Bunnykid68]

Gotta disagree with this. I have several LEO friends, and the all tell me that they really don't like this, especially at night. They don't know you from Adam and have no idea what you are reaching for.

If stopped, immediately roll down your window, if it's dark, turn on your dome light. If you have tinted windows, roll down the driver's side rear window as well.
Put your hands on the wheel and KEEP THEM THERE. When asked for license and registration, let the office know where you are reaching.

If you want to give him your LTCH then, that's up to you.

But the last thing you should be doing is digging for license and registration as the LEO is approaching.

/my $.02

And as an aside: I used to go digging for the info to have ready whenever I got stopped (had a bit of a leadfoot in my youth). Got a ticket every time. The first time I handled a stop the way I described above, I got my first warning. Could be a coincidence, I don't know.

To an extent you are right, but you should already know where that stuff is and can dig for it before the cop even gets out of his car. Also, if he does not want to be worried about what I am doing don't pull me over just to check my papers.

 

[Mr.Softball]

I do not tell unless asked and try very hard to not get pulled over.

 

[Sims]

To an extent you are right, but you should already know where that stuff is and can dig for it before the cop even gets out of his car.

Obviously you've never seen my glovebox.

 

[wally05]

To an extent you are right, but you should already know where that stuff is and can dig for it before the cop even gets out of his car. Also, if he does not want to be worried about what I am doing don't pull me over just to check my papers.

You don't get pulled over just to check your papers. You get pulled over for a traffic infraction.

Anyways, you're getting called out of the car if the officer can't see into it anyway. At least that's what I would do. If I can't see into it, I'm not approaching it.