Question for our LEO members- when did shooting though your own windshield become an approved action?

[BiscuitsandGravy]

I've been watching some YT channels such as PoliceActivity channel and noticed some officers shooting out through their own windshields.

When did this become an approved action and at what point do you decide to do it?
Edit: I guess I miss worded my question- I didn't know shooting through your own windshield was ever done. It appeared to me to be a new thing by watching these yt vids. Excuse my ignorance...

Any additional insight would be appreciated...

Thanks and stay safe!

B&G

 

[Angrysauce]

Not a cop fwiw, but logically I would think it all comes back to justification for lethal force. If you are justified in firing your service weapon in the defense of self or others, you are justified in firing through your windshield. If pumping two or three rounds through your windshield means getting shots on target faster than exiting the vehicle and you are actively in threat of great bodily harm, why wouldn't you? Time goes on, tactics change, and data influences the future.
It's not the 80s anymore, exiting the driver seat to stand behind a door that provides no better cover than the windshield while being shot at sucks. He who gets his hits first has greatly improved odds of winning that gunfight. If that means making the tax payer buy a windshield, so be it.

 

[MCgrease08]

Why would it need to be an "approved" action? If deadly force is warranted and required, it doesn't really matter how it's deployed.

I can't imagine anyone would choose to shoot through their windshield as the first option unless it was the quickest way to get rounds down range toward the threat. If blasting the glass saves someone a few seconds compared to getting the window down then why wouldn't they do it? Especially if the threat is directly in front of the vehicle.

 

[ECS686]

People/Agencies are learning a lot more about tactics Line Officers at most places are given a lot more tactical information in academies now than 20 or 30 years ago (whether they use it well thats another story).

A lot depends on a given agencies administration. Authorized Deadly Force is.....well authorized! Of course there are several scenerios. Are you shooting into or out of a vehicle?

I worked for the US Marshals Service as a contract guard and they at the time had a don't shoot at moving vehicles policy.
Municiple agencies I worked for didn't have a policy against it.

Bottom line a Captain of mine summed it up best. You can do whatever you want just make sure your career and check book can handle it. AKA better be able to articulate why you did what you did to the point a 6th grader that never worked as a LE can understand it!

I will say in my 33 year career I have seen at some agencies special teams sometimes do have a different or more forgiving use of force policy so that could be a factor!

 

[Butch627]

Wouldn't the bullet deflect after hitting an angled windshield and what would happen to its expansion and energy?

 

[ECS686]

I was a FLETC certified Firearms instructor before I retired and yes there is deflection. Below is one of the training slides I can share.

Bottom line there's no good way to shoot through a barrier.

 

[diver dan]

I would have to try that tactic first with a old car to see if it works ? PS wear safety glasses.

 

[Gabriel]

I would have to try that tactic first with a old car to see if it works ? PS wear safety glasses.

I've done it about a half dozen times. Double up on the earpro.

 

[Sylvain]

It became an "approved action" when criminals first started to shoot officers through their windshields ... Not really a new thing especially when the police car is in motion.

 

[BigRed]

I've done it about a half dozen times. Double up on the earpro.

Definitely this..... Even with earpro, firing a pistol in a car if uncomfortably loud.

I have never done it in an emergency situation where putting on earpro is not an option.... hopefully I never have to.

 

[Ark]

Wouldn't the bullet deflect after hitting an angled windshield and what would happen to its expansion and energy?

Modern duty rounds are pretty good at holding together through intermediate barriers and not expanding. Yes they deflect, yes they lose energy.

The way it seems to work out in the real world is that the first several rounds are used to hog out a hole in the safety glass, which the subsequent rounds are then shot through without deflection.

Definitely wanna roll down those windows if you can.

 

[Kirk Freeman]

"When did this become an approved action and at what point do you decide to do it?"

Since the motor vehicle was invented and you never decide to do it. Someone may force you to do it when it is necessary to defend life from immediate death or serious bodily injury.

 

[GIJEW]

I've been watching some YT channels such as PoliceActivity channel and noticed some officers shooting out through their own windshields.

When did this become an approved action and at what point do you decide to do it?

Any additional insight would be appreciated...

Thanks and stay safe!

B&G

Shooting through your windshield clearly isn't plan A, with bullet deflection and glass splinters flying back at your face. I'm not a LEO but IMO it's a case of be ambushed and not having the time and distance needed to break contact without first returning fire. That and, if you're shooting through your windshield, you're able to use the engine as cover which is the only reliably bullet proof part of the car

 

[hpclayto]

Studies have shown that the most effective defense against getting shot is shooting back, thats why.

But, it's been talked about for a while. The driver's seat is a death trap for bullets, see the deflection chart above. Cars can provide fantastic cover if you can get to the right parts of it. I've done it several times in some classes I've taken outside the department but just this past year was the first time I've ever done it in any department mandated training. A lot of that is mostly due to cost and logistics.

 

[pitbulld45]

Been an officer since 97 and always mentioned as an option, run them over or shoot through the window, depends on situation etc.

 

[JTL165]

1. If it is the fastest way to change the behavior of the BG and doesn't cause harm to innocents it is good to go
2. Bullet path changes through glass (predictably) but boring a hole with multiple rounds is the most effective way to ensure effective POI

 

[ljk]

 

[maxwelhse]

boring a hole with multiple rounds is the most effective way to ensure effective POI

For better or worse, this is why the first half of my mags are always loaded with FMJ. Years ago a buddy raised the point that someone very realistically could be trying to run me down with a car and if I need to shoot them through the windshield I wanted to make sure it was going to make good holes in the glass and not skip off.

No clue if there's a real basis to that in science, but, still feels better in my mind than a JHP into a windshield.

 

[ECS686]

For better or worse, this is why the first half of my mags are always loaded with FMJ. Years ago a buddy raised the point that someone very realistically could be trying to run me down with a car and if I need to shoot them through the windshield I wanted to make sure it was going to make good holes in the glass and not skip off.

No clue if there's a real basis to that in science, but, still feels better in my mind than a JHP into a windshield.

Respectfully that is antiquated info. FMJ or Bonded will do the same deflection as the example I shared a few posts ago. And bonded ammo has really upped the performance of what we had 30 years ago.

Here's another issue on the idea of "boring a hole" in a widshield Most BGs aren't going to stand still while you drill a hole in one part of a windshield. They do move.

 

[maxwelhse]

Respectfully that is antiquated info. FMJ or Bonded will do the same deflection as the example I shared a few posts ago. And bonded ammo has really upped the performance of what we had 30 years ago.

Here's another issue on the idea of "boring a hole" in a widshield Most BGs aren't going to stand still while you drill a hole in one part of a windshield. They do move.

The conversation was 20 years ago, so...

So... What's ideal today for that situation?