Question from my Wife...

[Super-T]

Hello all.

I am new here and this is my first post, besides the one in the Greetings forum... So, here goes.

I have had my LTCH for around a year or so, and just recently started to CC. Now, I CC pretty much all the time except at work, and then I lock my weapon in a gun safe in my vehicle. I try to shoot regularly to remain comfortable and proficient with my weapon, but, I am no pistol expert.

My wife and I were having a discussion the other day regarding my new habit, and she asked me a question. What would I do if I came upon a "situation" while I had my weapon on me? i.e. I am present when someone else pulls a gun, and points it at another person. Not me.

I was not expecting that question. My thoughts about CC were focused on protection of my family and myself first and foremost while at home or in public... SO, I hesitated, and said, that, well, FIRST (IF I could do so safely) I would call 911 and make sure they were on the line recording whatever happened next... and that IF someone else was shot, that maybe that person was the shooter's target, but how could I be sure, that might just be the shooter's FIRST target... I would definitely feel threatened and would try to react appropriately...

Since this conversation with her, I have been thinking, "What would I do?" I don't know. How can you know until, God forbid, the situation arises.

Anyway, just thought I would throw this out here and see what responses I get.

Has anyone been in this situation? Any general insights? Does anyone have any link(s) that might have guidlines for lawfully and safely reacting in this type of situation?

 

[Vince49]

Good question and good post. I have seen this discussed on here in the last few weeks you might want to search the threads. I am rather new on here myself so I will wait for others with more experience to answer you and will be interested in what they have to say also.

 

[esrice]

First and foremost, Welcome (again) to INGO! You've come to the right place to discuss such questions with your fellow Hoosier gun-toters.

Second, your question deals primarily with "what is the proper mindset when carrying a gun?" This is a HUGE topic, and one that many people spend lots of time talking about-- opinions abound.

Most people will tell you that your #1 priority is you and your family, so making them safe is what you should be most concerned about. Depending on the situation, that may mean pulling your weapon, or it may mean being a good witness.

As far as your specific scenario-- one of not being the primary target-- things start to become a little more gray and less black and white. Although I would caution you to not get involved prematurely and risk having you or your family hurt/killed, there aren't many of us sheepdogs that could sit quietly on the sidelines and watch innocent people threatened with violence, especially when we possess the means to stop it.

So my answer to your question is "It depends". Yeah I realize that's not much help.

My advice would be to become as proficient with your weapon(s) of choice as possible, and get as much professional training as possible-- in both the areas of tactics AND mindset. There are many great opportunities available to you right here in Indiana. Check the Tactics and Training section for classes offered.

Good luck!

 

[Indy_Guy_77]

There really is no "set" answer....

Every situation, and every situational response depends on myriad variables.

And each particular set of variables are different for each and every scenario.

What we each need to do is determine for ourselves, as individuals, where the "line of involvement" is.

I've got a wife.... I'm NOT going to jeopardize my safety and well being in most situations.

-J-

 

[loony1]

if the gun in question, is pointed at "friend or family", then i would not hesitate to shoot. However, anything else is up in the air on how to handle it. "shoot first, ask questions later"! jm .02

 

[esrice]

"shoot first, ask questions later"! jm .02

Unless the question is "What is that unknown dark figure in my bushes??"

 

[finity]

There are 2 aspects to the situation you present.

First is the legal side. I'm not sure if you are asking or not but you would be completely justified, legally, to use deadly force against the person who is threatening the innocent party.

If you haven't read it here is the IN self-defense law which also includes protection of third parties:

Indiana Code 35-41-3

As stated above you can use force (including deadly force if warranted) to protect a third party as if you were defending yourself. A word of caution though; you need to be fairly certain that what you THINK is happening REALLY IS happening. There could be several scenario's where the BG isn't really the BG. As long as you are reasonable in your belief that you needed to act (& can articulate that to a concerned party - cop/prosecutor/jury) then you should be fine.

Second is the "moral" side. As has been stated very well already, there many facets to consider on knowing what to do.

You must take into account, ultimately, your own safety. That's why we carry in the first place. You must also take into consideration the safety of your family if they are there. Lastly you have to be able to face yourself in the morning knowing what you did (or didn't do) was correct.

Are you OK knowing that, if the worst happens & someone is murdered, you didn't act when you have had the opportunity to prevent it? Or conversely, possibly taking the life of the "Bad Guy" & not knowing if he was really going pull the trigger or not?

No one can tell you what to do. You have to figure that out on your own.

The best way to act in everyone's best interests (barring any been-there-done-that real training) is to do what you're doing right now. Work it around in your head until you've played through the possible scenario's & have decided what you will do - before hand.

I have decided that if I'm alone & in a position to reasonably ensure my safety that I will try to act in defense of someone else. It may sound slightly weasely but that's as sure as I can be about it. YMMV.

Oh & to

 

[88GT]

I've been there. Watched exactly that unfold in front of me.

What did I do? Retreated inside the domocile and hoped like hell the thugs out front hit vital areas when the bullets started flying.

Okay, in all seriousness, I did witness one man pull a firearm in a very threatening manner on another in the front yard of my rental unit. Here's a short rundown of my thought process.

"Oh, holy hell. Why'd you have to go and do that? And will you stop holding it like a damn gangsta, you can't hit sh1t like that. Wait. Technically, I could shoot you and be well within my rights since the other guy is presumably unarmed. But if I do that, no telling for sure what the half a dozen other asshats standing around are gonna do. And as far as I know, the "victim" here is just as likely to pull one on me for sh1ts and giggles. Eh, I think I'll mosey on to the back and put as many walls between me and them as possible. I sure hope I can get cell reception back there. What a time for the cops to take a walk looking for skanky ho b1tch [that's what I call the tenant who rented that unit from me]. I hope that Suburban doesn't get hit. That's a nice 'burb."

Yes, that is exactly what I thought. I'll never forget it, partly because in hindsight, it's a ridiculous inner dialogue to have given what was going on.

There was no real "victim" in the traditional sense and I wasn't about to invite the man into my life for those pieces of garbage. I did weigh the option of trying to be a good witness, but the chances of being a victim myself weighed more heavily. I took solace in the fact that I had a decent description of both men (though not the half a dozen other thugs belonging to the Jets and the Sharks) as well as the Suburban one of them was driving.

Under different circumstances, I might have done something differently. And based on this incident, I don't think I would hesitate to act if it were prudent and safe to do so.

 

[moischmoe]

First, I would move my family or friends to a safer area. If you just pull your weapon and start shooting, the BG (bad guy) may return fire and miss you, but hit someone you love.After that, you'll have to decide what to do based on the situation. If your not very good with your gun, you may want to continue retreating. If you really want to help the potential victim, you may have the advantage of being able to re-enter the situation (from the safe place) with a more tactical advantage. (approaching from cover unnoticed, good shot angle, ect.) Of course, by time all that happens, it may be too late, but MY first priorities are to protect my family, myself, and my friends. After that, I'll try to protect a stranger.

 

[rbrthenderson]

Probably try to find cover and bunker down and call 911. If I can't find cover and don't have time to move and I feel like I can put him down before he sees me, I'm probably going to shoot.

I'd hate to shoot and find out the gun was fake or it was a practical joke but I'd hate to be dead more.

 

[SSGSAD]

When you 'walk into' a situation, like that, how do you who is the 'good'
guy, and who is the 'bad' guy ??? You may be walking into a self defense
situation, and might shoot a 'good' guy defending himself. (or herself).
Be very careful, take cover, and call help, and OBSERVE, you might make a better witness, than a hero....

 

[grizman]

Be there! It's a hard call! One's level of training and mental commitment to protecting fellow human beings plays a huge roll in your response. Not to sound like a mall ninja or an internet commando here, but I have been trained to respond in certain ways to threats.
I have recieved training by uncle sams best instructors! The fine men of the the Army Ranger School. My first instinct as a former soldier is to eliminate the threat, my first instict as a father and a husband is to put myself between the threat and my loved ones before engaging said threat!
I reacted calmly and quitely placing myself in the line of fire sheilding my family while moving them to cover then engaged the threat with the intent of difuseing the situation peacefully if possible. Well it did not go peacefully but did end quickly! The threat turned on me just as I had secured the family and moved in my direction raising his weapon. I responded and put two in his chest. Do I struggle with the outcome? NO! would/could I react the same for a stranger? YES!