Reaching out to 500 yards... Questions.

[Lebowski]

So, I've got my AR15 sighted in pretty well at 200 yards. Consistently hitting the hanging steel target that is about 14"X24". Great. I can even semi-reliably hit the 300 yard target as well.

But I want to reach out to the 400 and 500 yard targets, but am having difficulty in doing so.

What areas do you think I should focus more on?

I'm using:

-- Surplus ammo. Nothin' fancy. Shot 55G and 62G 556 with similar results. Can't really tell the difference.
-- Budget 16" barrel. JSE, I believe is the brand. Nothin' fancy.
-- Cheap trigger. Just the standard one that comes in everyone's lower part kit.
-- Cheap optics. Hurray for Amazon and the UTG 3-12X44 scope I bought from it.

500 yards is my goal because it's the furthest distance I am able to shoot at any range in the surrounding nearby area.

After reviewing photos from my last range trip I realize that I need to sight in the scope a bit better. It appears most my shots were going a bit to the left which would certainly cause misses at longer distances. I'll correct that on my next range trip.



So, what do you suggest? Continue to tighten my groups up at 200yds and move outward? Do a trigger job? Consider a longer, match grade barrel?

I previously thought about building a new long range rifle in 308, but considering 500 yards is pretty much the maximum distance available to me that seems pointless.

Next time I go to the range I want to start focusing more on the 300 and 400 yard targets, but the end goal is to slap steel at punch holes in paper at 500 yards.

Thanks!

 

[Woobie]

You're going to have a lot of parallax in that optic. Your cheek to stock weld is very important, but you would have to be extremely consistent to overcome that parallax.

The ammo isn't helping you, but it should be accurate enough to consistently hit a silhouette at that range.

Wind is pretty important beyond 300. Practice your wind calls.

Recoil management is very important. Left to its own devices, an AR will flop like a fish in a boat when it fires. It needs to move directly rearward in the exact same way every shot. Follow through is key.

 

[SEIndSAM]

So, I've got my AR15 sighted in pretty well at 200 yards. Consistently hitting the hanging steel target that is about 14"X24". Great. I can even semi-reliably hit the 300 yard target as well.

But I want to reach out to the 400 and 500 yard targets, but am having difficulty in doing so.

What areas do you think I should focus more on?

I'm using:

-- Surplus ammo. Nothin' fancy. Shot 55G and 62G 556 with similar results. Can't really tell the difference.
-- Budget 16" barrel. JSE, I believe is the brand. Nothin' fancy.
-- Cheap trigger. Just the standard one that comes in everyone's lower part kit.
-- Cheap optics. Hurray for Amazon and the UTG 3-12X44 scope I bought from it.

500 yards is my goal because it's the furthest distance I am able to shoot at any range in the surrounding nearby area.

After reviewing photos from my last range trip I realize that I need to sight in the scope a bit better. It appears most my shots were going a bit to the left which would certainly cause misses at longer distances. I'll correct that on my next range trip.



So, what do you suggest? Continue to tighten my groups up at 200yds and move outward? Do a trigger job? Consider a longer, match grade barrel?

I previously thought about building a new long range rifle in 308, but considering 500 yards is pretty much the maximum distance available to me that seems pointless.

Next time I go to the range I want to start focusing more on the 300 and 400 yard targets, but the end goal is to slap steel at punch holes in paper at 500 yards.

Thanks!

Your best bet is to get some training. Do a Project Appleseed or a Revevers Riders and learn how to properly sight in your scope and and properly shoot that rifle.

Then get a better scope, then upgrade the trigger...

 

[bocefus78]

Tighter groups at 200 will help. No offense, but a 14x24 at 200 should be easy to hit with practice. At that range, I wouldnt quit until you can consistantly group shots in a 4 inch circle or less. That is 2moa and at 500, that means a 10inch group if you do your part. Try some better fgmm ammo too. It's pricey, but it will show you if it's the ammo or the shooter not being consistent.

As far as hitting left, that could have been wind or the scope....or a mix of both. 10mph wind will move a 55gr bullet 1 inch per hundred yards. Wind calling needs learned at 500 yds. Nothing but practice will teach you that.

Gear wise, the trigger is the first thing I'd replace. Primary arms has gieselle triggers on sale for stupid cheap (compared to normal prices). This will be the easiest way to tighten groups with dollar bills instead of skills.

Keep practicing and get to a reveres riders event. We can teach you to make those hits in one weekend!

 

[Woobie]

The trigger can definitely be improved. But it can be overcome with practice.

I spent 2 weeks in Arkansas learning how to shoot M4's out to 600. This is mil-spec everything. On a 20" wide target at 600, the shooter gets about 2" of error for himself, the rest is in the mechanical accuracy of the system. I wish everyone could experience an actual mil-spec trigger. They are a bit smoother than your parts kit trigger because they've been shot in. But due to the fact that there are multiple sear engagements (because of the triggers 3 round burst function) your pull weight will range from 5.5-6 to 7-9 to 10-11 on any given shot. And you really don't know until you start to squeeze. It takes an enormous amount of discipline to have a consistent trigger pull.

But despite all that, a trained shooter can see 50% or a little better hit probability with mil-spec stuff using iron sights. This is on a 20" wide E-type silhouette. I would stay stick with the cheap trigger until you've really gotten good. It will improve you as a shooter.

 

[Woobie]

Is your rail free floated?

 

[Lebowski]

Thanks fellas, I appreciate it!

The reason I'm hitting left at 200 yards is because I couldn't see my shot placement originally. I had some white spray paint in the truck and the steel targets were originally white so I put a fresh coat on them. Ran out of ammo but saw that I was hitting mostly (slightly) left. Not a big deal and easy fix there. Going to hang some paper next time to see actual group sizes. I was getting marks that 'touched' on the plate so I assume I can get decent groups at that distance on paper.



Next time I go out I'll bring the sand bags with me too. I was just shooting from a sitting down position at a picnic table with a bipod. I'll steady'er up with some sand bags and really zero her in before reaching out further.


Luckily the range has wind socks at all distances so that'll help with figuring out wind direction and speed.

 

[SmileDocHill]

Any ar is inherently accurate enough to ring that size steel at 500 yards with wolf steel ammo. Like said above, I honestly mean no offense by this butit isn't the rifle. Go to a Revere riders event and they will have you sorted out.

 

[Lebowski]

Is your rail free floated?

Yes.

 

[Lebowski]

Any ar is inherently accurate enough to ring that size steel at 500 yards with wolf steel ammo. Like said above, I honestly mean no offense by this butit isn't the rifle. Go to a Revere riders event and they will have you sorted out.

None taken. I don't know anyone locally that's 'into' guns so I don't really hang out with people who shoot often. So even though I like to go to the range and have been shooting for a couple years I'm actually pretty horrible, lol.

And I just literally got the scope sighted in the other day since it was extremely way off zero, so the little ammo I had with me that day was spent sighting it in and then spent enjoying hearing the 'ping' after each shot @ 200.

 

[42769vette]

If you wanted to upgrade the scope now would be the time. I am selling PST 1-4's cheaper than I normally buy them for.

 

[grunt soldier]

Those utg scopes are known to not hold a zero at all so that could be a big problem. Any standard mil spec rifle will be accurate enough for 4 moa out to 500 yards no problem. 99 percent of the time it is errors with the shooter. Trigger squeeeeeeeeeeeeeze (If you know why there is 13 E's in this good for you and if you don't please attend a Revere's Rider event) is where a ton of people mess up. But you got lots of things that need to be worked on. Sight picture, Sight alignment, Focus, follow through. If you learn these things 4 moa at 500 yards is a very achievable goal.

 

[RobbyMaQ]

None taken. I don't know anyone locally that's 'into' guns so I don't really hang out with people who shoot often. So even though I like to go to the range and have been shooting for a couple years I'm actually pretty horrible, lol.

And I just literally got the scope sighted in the other day since it was extremely way off zero, so the little ammo I had with me that day was spent sighting it in and then spent enjoying hearing the 'ping' after each shot @ 200.

Even better!
I gather you don't have years of 'bad habits' to contend with, which makes learning at a revere's event so much easier.
Best 60$ you'll ever spend

 

[rhslover]

I shoot NRA high power matches with an AR. Myself and everyone else I know shoot bullets at least 69gr at most shoot 77 or 80 at the 600 yard line. The lighter bullets just don't do as well. Your barrel twist must be enough to handle the heavier bullets as well. My match rifle is a 1 in 8 twist and shoots 77 gr like a laser.

 

[tradertator]

That scope could easily be your problem. If you plan to change anything on the gun, I would make that priority number 1.

 

[natdscott]

You have received some good advice in this thread.

Borrow a known-good scope (*this is not brand-related...all it needs to be is a PROVEN scope on other rifles; that means it adjusts true, and it HOLDS the adjustment) and see about the rings, or have someone who CAN see about the rings do so. If you were closer, I'd do it myself.

I'll be level honest with you: running a 16" barrel does you no favors at 5/600, and it being a budget tube is a higly speculative endeavor: it might be okay, it might be trash. Even some of the better big-box "match" barrels turn out to be junk when tested further, but you just can't tell until you get it solid on PAPER at 300 yards at least.

Next is, it's an AR, and it's semi-automatical from--usually--30 round magazines stuffed full of pretty little brass that generates next to no recoil. What this can lead to with a lot of shooters is the idea that they can shoot 100 rounds in a session of an hour or so and get good groups, and good zeroes.

Sure, I know shooters that can shoot 100 rounds in a short period and turn in groups at 0.75 to 1.5 MOA, but they're not the norm, and they have a lot of time on the rifle shooting for precision. Everybody ELSE needs to SLOW the eff down, and shoot about 2 rounds a minute or less, while maintaining extremely consistent control of the rifle platform. As stated, with the AR, this is CRITICAL...it just doesn't tolerate slack like a bolt rifle does.

Now that that is on the table, your next issue is the issue ammo. Stuff's trash, and there's no other way to put that. It's intended for volume and saturation that will THEREBY hit the intended target in SPITE of the ammo, not because of it.

Grunt Soldier said above that 4 MOA at 5/600 is achievable. While that's just terrible accuracy overall, he is exactly correct, given what you've stated you're using.

Please try one box of Black Hills' 69 or 77-grain loading, and if it doesn't make the clouds open up and the angels sing, then you have a serious rifle or shooter problem.

We competitors don't use those kind of components because we like to buy it, we use it because it can do 1/2 Minute at 600 yards, and punching the spotter regularly is usually required to compete at a high level. I'm not saying that is, or should be, your goal, but I am saying that decent ammo is (at least) the difference between 2 Minutes and 4 Minutes at 600.

-Nate

 

[bthomp9]

trigger first then optic. Extra magnification really helps at long distance. Check with Allan at AA Optics.