Republican MD Makes The Case For Single Payer

[mrjarrell]

And he doesn't do a bad job of it. Most people are already paying into a medical system and getting nothing from it and are paying for medical insurance on top of that. While I dislike the thought of the government running the medical establishment, in terms of payment, the case can certainly be made that we already have a single payer system that could easily transition from its current status to a full blown medical system that covers everyone. If it actually did add transparency and a balance to things, it would be hard to argue against it. Unfortunately, transparency and balance are not things I've come to expect from the government.

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[ViperJock]

Single payer = no competition = bad

 

[Denny347]

Single payer = no competition = bad

My very conservative grandparents LOVE their Medicare.

 

[ViperJock]

My very conservative grandparents LOVE their Medicare.

Yeah, its funny how that works.

 

[tyrajam]

And he doesn't do a bad job of it. Most people are already paying into a medical system and getting nothing from it and are paying for medical insurance on top of that. While I dislike the thought of the government running the medical establishment, in terms of payment, the case can certainly be made that we already have a single payer system that could easily transition from its current status to a full blown medical system that covers everyone. If it actually did add transparency and a balance to things, it would be hard to argue against it. Unfortunately, transparency and balance are not things I've come to expect from the government.

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I think your right, it sounds good...in theory. But if our government tried to implement it we know how it would turn out.

 

[88GT]

Single payer = no competition = bad

This pretty much sums it up.

Of course, we collectively cherry pick what we will oppose and support based on our direct benefit. Government education is the exact same thing, and look how many people who oppose government health care will defend government schools to the end.

 

[Expat]

I understand the fact that no single payer system is perfect, that it is “socialist,” that it is “un-American

Yeah, it is socialist and UN-American.

 

[5.56'aholic]

All one needs to do is look to Freddie Mac and Fannie May to get an idea of what happens when the government is the sole entity backing a system.

 

[CarmelHP]

And he doesn't do a bad job of it. Most people are already paying into a medical system and getting nothing from it and are paying for medical insurance on top of that. While I dislike the thought of the government running the medical establishment, in terms of payment, the case can certainly be made that we already have a single payer system that could easily transition from its current status to a full blown medical system that covers everyone. If it actually did add transparency and a balance to things, it would be hard to argue against it. Unfortunately, transparency and balance are not things I've come to expect from the government.

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You have to be kidding me, that weak soup he served convinced you that turning a quarter of the economy over to the federal government is A-OK? It would have been better to argue that it shows that the federal government already has TOO MUCH control of that sector, not that more would be better.

 

[Sfrandolph]

Instead of Obamacare taking over the medical system, it should have taken over and eliminated the insurance companies.

 

[mrjarrell]

You have to be kidding me, that weak soup he served convinced you that turning a quarter of the economy over to the federal government is A-OK? It would have been better to argue that it shows that the federal government already has TOO MUCH control of that sector, not that more would be better.

Didn't convince me of anything, as I said. Said it was a pretty good article for making the case. Sure, it wasn't 45 pages long and it didn't go into great detail, but he made his points concisely and laid out his case. I have no confidence that the government is capable of running a full system, but the basis for one is already there and people are already paying into it, just getting no benefit from it till they're a senior citizen.

The current system, even before having RomneyBamaCare inflicted on it, is broken. Some of it is due to crony capitalism, government interference (at many levels) and the insurance companies. Hospitals and other care facilities also bear a huge chunk of blame for what's wrong with the system, too. Not sure single payer is a fix, but something will have to be done. The system is getting worse and out of hand.

 

[$mooth]

Although I generally support limited gov't, I do think healthcare and education should be basic rights and are things that should be covered under the federal gov't, along with basic infrastructure and defence forces.

As someone who has lived under both types of systems (and someone whose family has never been on welfare or unemployment), I must say that I prefer the Canadian system of healthcare. I don't think it's perfect, and I think it would benefit from allowing companies to offer "upgraded" benefits, but it's a whole lot better than what we have.

I know too many Americans that cannot be contributing member of society due to ailments that they couldn't control and cannot pay to make liveable. I also trust that the gov't is sufficiently inefficient that screwing me over will take more effort than a company who is only concerned about profit for shareholders.

 

[$mooth]

Didn't convince me of anything, as I said. Said it was a pretty good article for making the case. Sure, it wasn't 45 pages long and it didn't go into great detail, but he made his points concisely and laid out his case. I have no confidence that the government is capable of running a full system, but the basis for one is already there and people are already paying into it, just getting no benefit from it till they're a senior citizen.

The current system, even before having RomneyBamaCare inflicted on it, is broken. Some of it is due to crony capitalism, government interference (at many levels) and the insurance companies. Hospitals and other care facilities also bear a huge chunk of blame for what's wrong with the system, too. Not sure single payer is a fix, but something will have to be done. The system is getting worse and out of hand.

Right now we half-a it. If we have medicare/medicaid and we force hospitals to admit patients who don't have a means of paying (and do not have to provide any identification), then we are already passing those costs on to those who do pay.

 

[88GT]

Insurance companies are not part of the problem. Ideas that medical care and education are fundamental rights that everybody should have provided for them are.

The only thing that needs to be done is get government the hell out of our medical care industry.

 

[ViperJock]

Insurance companies are not part of the problem. Ideas that medical care and education are fundamental rights that everybody should have provided for them are.

The only thing that needs to be done is get government the hell out of our medical care industry.

Respectfully disagree. Insurance companies take millions of health care dollars out of the health care system. These are dollars that people pay into "health care" but never go toward an actual health care product or service. They make huge profits while simultaneously refusing payment. They are a racket. If doctor charges a patient $100 and the patient has insurance, the insurance pays $20. If a patient does not have insurance and the doctor charges the patient $20,the insurance companies get the doctor thrown in jail for "insurance fraud." Ergo They actually PUNISH people for not "buying protection." Reminds me organized crime a little bit...

Insurance needs an overhaul. We should have catastrophic health insurance not this crap that pays for every little bump and scratch we get. WTF is that about? Car insurance,home insurance, every other insurance only pays for the major stuff, why is it that health insurance has to cover EVERYTHING. What we have is akin to car insurance paying for gas and the $1 to put air in my tires.

The problem with that is that people are to entitled and lazy and stupid to put money away in case they need a little extra for medical bills and then they think they should get health care for free.

The "health care is a right" argument is BS.

 

[CarmelHP]

Why should you not be able to contract with a health insurance provider for whatever level of coverage you want? Why is profit such a nefarious undertaking? As 88GT mentioned, the ingrained socialist leaning of the populace combined with a government willing to use that to take ever more control is the real problem.

 

[steveh_131]

Insurance companies are not part of the problem. Ideas that medical care and education are fundamental rights that everybody should have provided for them are.

The only thing that needs to be done is get government the hell out of our medical care industry.

I have to agree with this. Insurance policies ought to be contractual and consensual. If it is of no benefit to you, don't get it.

Government intervention, as always, is the root of the problem. The medical industry is just one more example of crony capitalism gone wrong. Bring it back to a free market and it would be just fine.

 

[EvilElmo]

Instead of Obamacare taking over the medical system, it should have taken over and eliminated the insurance companies.

All in due time. This is just stage 1. In Stage 1 the insurance companies are still allowed to exist but have to meet the government's coverage demands. That will in turn (of course) drive the costs up, as we're seeing from the numerous reports in the news. Those high premiums will in turn produce more unrest among the populace and more calls for single-payer. Baby steps...

The American people will never knowingly adopt socialism. But, under the name of ‘liberalism,’ they will adopt every fragment of the socialist program, until one day America will be a socialist nation, without knowing how it happened.
-Norman Thomas, U.S. Socialist Party presidential candidate 1940, 1944 and 1948

 

[ViperJock]

Why should you not be able to contract with a health insurance provider for whatever level of coverage you want?

Exactly. But one can't really pick and choose right now. There are various "plans" but not really an a la carte. Also I believe Obama care plans to force us all to carry insurance for certain things.

Why is profit such a nefarious undertaking?

Its not. Unless it amounts to extortion. Also, they are making profits all the while refusing to cover things for people that they should be covering.

As 88GT mentioned, the ingrained socialist leaning of the populace combined with a government willing to use that to take ever more control is the real problem.

Agreed.

 

[steveh_131]

Insurance companies will screw over their customers for a profit whenever they can get away with it. I don't think anyone here would deny that or say that such fraudulent practices shouldn't be prosecuted.

But that is no different than any other corporation, and it is not the root of the problem in the medical industry. The problem, in my mind, is that regular hard-working people have to pay absurd prices to medical practitioners to make up for

1) The frivolous litigation and obscene payouts and
2) The insurance they must carry to protect them and
3) The losses they take by servicing handout-collectors

This is the best explanation I can come up with for the amount of money that these people charge us in what ought to be a free market. What else explains it?

I am asking sincerely, because I can't figure it out. In this area, ABA therapy bills insurance $175/hour. How is that possible? The therapist is nothing more than a college student intern. Yes, a psychologist oversees the entire clinic and there are a few case managers involved, but how can this price be competitive in a free market?