Romney defines "Middle Income" as $200k-250k

[cobber]

Actual new shoes and not ones from the Goodwill... wow, that doesn't seem fair.

The clerk wrapped them in brown paper and let me out the back door, but word still got around.

 

[John Galt]

Ahhhh, the old "class warfare" distraction! I thought this site was frequented by the more "informed" people of society, but this thread makes me question that premise. Who cares how much money someone else makes, our Natural Rights to Life, Liberty and Property are "supposed" to be the same for ALL Americans. Middle class, upper class, lower class, no class, I could care less. I detest class arguments, as I believe they are a wonderful tool to be used by those that wish to create animosity among the sheep, and it does somewhat surprise me to see 5 pages of posts on this topic on this forum.

 

[GBuck]

Ahhhh, the old "class warfare" distraction! I thought this site was frequented by the more "informed" people of society, but this thread makes me question that premise. Who cares how much money someone else makes, our Natural Rights to Life, Liberty and Property are "supposed" to be the same for ALL Americans. Middle class, upper class, lower class, no class, I could care less. I detest class arguments, as I believe they are a wonderful tool to be used by those that wish to create animosity among the sheep, and it does somewhat surprise me to see 5 pages of posts on this topic on this forum.

Ummm.. What? All people are doing is pointing out the definition of middle class.. I don't see any "warfare" going on. No one is saying rights should be different from others. Did you read the thread?

 

[KoopaKGB]

The "class warefare debate" is particularly diversionary when even the "poorest" in America are more "wealthy" than 90% of the world's population.

Yes its true we are all blessed to live in this great country. I dont think anybody would be willing to argue otherwise.

In America shelter, food and clean water can usually be had for even our poorest. We still have kids that go to bed hungry, but thats a different thread. I just read Mitt Romney saying $100,000 isn't middle class and that it was $200,000-250,000. That statement kind of shocked me because I would certainly say earning $100,000 is within middle class.

But folks have made some really good points here about location and other important factors that would influence somebody's opinion on this discussion.

 

[VN Vet]

Wow! So what am I if I earn a piddly $15,000 a year? I'm sure as heck not middle class. Actually, I don't think I'm in any class.

I went to apply for food stamps and after my monthly expenses I was one dollar over on the maximum allowable monthly income. Gee wiz, I was disqualified for food stamps because I earned $12 dollars too much a year.

I could move to Rota Spain and live like a King on 15 grand a year.

 

[ArmedProgrammer]

Let the new Obama/Fed round of inflation kick in for a bit. 250K will be middle class...

voila... you're welcome...

unless you on a fixed income - then you're screwed.

 

[VN Vet]

In NYC and LA for sure 200 to 250 thousand is middle class. However in Topeka, Fort Smith or Newburgh it is more likely 40 to 150 thousand is middle class. Romney said it is local dependent and did not say this was through out the Nation.

I live OK on my meager 15 thousand.

 

[gunshop73]

Let's face it politicians are always trying to put us in "boxes" and pit us against each other. I don't care what anyone else makes for an income. That's there business, that's why we need a flat or fair tax then the bureaucrats can't play this game and divide us according to income. The goal is less government and therefore more freedom.

 

[Iroquois]

At first I felt bad for the OP when I read he only made 20-25 grand a year...
Then I read about his wish to get married and I realized he was delusional.
Then I saw the line about him being a taxpayer. Really? (How much taxes could he
actually pay?) This is a joke right?
I do got a question for all the rich folk haters....you ever get a good paying job from
some schmuck making 20-25 grand? Didn't think so.

 

[downzero]

Lots of middle class small business people don't incorporate and their personally owned companies put them in that range. It is middle class, just at the upper end.

In case you didn't know, trade or business expense is above the line, and AGI is usually the measure, not gross income.

 

[downzero]

In NYC and LA for sure 200 to 250 thousand is middle class. However in Topeka, Fort Smith or Newburgh it is more likely 40 to 150 thousand is middle class. Romney said it is local dependent and did not say this was through out the Nation.

I live OK on my meager 15 thousand.

$250k is not middle class anywhere in the world. This is not a reflection of fairness, greed, or class envy. This reflects the fact that there is no place where the "average" or "median" income person makes anything even close to $250k per year.

Anyone, political candidate or not, who believes that $250k a year is middle class is either ignorant or delusional. In other words, they either don't know the data, or they know better and convince themselves of something that just isn't so.

 

[mlzoiss]

250k is NOT middle class.

It sure as heck isn't upper class, especially when you take out taxes. And no, I don't make half that much.

I make less than a quarter of that...hell yeah it's upper class. Not rich but damn close.

My husband runs his own business and his yearly income fluctuates wildly, could be under $100K most years, and over $250K once or twice. We live comfortably, but are certainly not "millionaires." I still shop for clothes at Kohl's, Target and Walmart just like everyone else. I shop online for the lowest price for everything, and use coupons at Bed Bath and Beyond. I certainly don't feel "upper class" nor would you call me "upper class" if you saw me on the street. SO, yes we live life as middle class Americans who are fortunate to have a nice house, successful business, and hopefully will be able to retire if the Fed. Reserve doesn't run the dollar into the ground, and Obama doesn't get the chance to seize our earnings to fund his campaign supporters and all of the votes he is buying.

$250k is not middle class anywhere in the world. This is not a reflection of fairness, greed, or class envy. This reflects the fact that there is no place where the "average" or "median" income person makes anything even close to $250k per year.

Anyone, political candidate or not, who believes that $250k a year is middle class is either ignorant or delusional. In other words, they either don't know the data, or they know better and convince themselves of something that just isn't so.

You are missing the point, that he was talking about a range of middle class incomes. He was simply making the point that a family could earn $250K per year, and NOT be considered millionaires deserving the penalty of a higher tax rate than everyone else.

 

[Steelman]

I've never made enough money to be a Republican. Probably never will...

 

[downzero]

You are missing the point, that he was talking about a range of middle class incomes. He was simply making the point that a family could earn $250K per year, and NOT be considered millionaires deserving the penalty of a higher tax rate than everyone else.

I don't think anyone should pay a higher tax rate than anyone else. It does not follow that makes everyone "middle class."

 

[SERparacord]

Scrap the IRS and go with a national sales tax.

 

[KoopaKGB]

At first I felt bad for the OP when I read he only made 20-25 grand a year....

Thanks, your sympathy means alot to me.

Then I read about his wish to get married and I realized he was delusional.

Some of us are still young and dumb enough to desire a lifelong partner.

Then I saw the line about him being a taxpayer. Really? (How much taxes could he
actually pay?) This is a joke right?

You're right I get some pretty sweet tax breaks for earning so much. Tax the scraps that I earn because that makes alot of sense.

I do got a question for all the rich folk haters....you ever get a good paying job from
some schmuck making 20-25 grand? Didn't think so.

You're right theres no way some rich hating schmuck can afford to employee another person. All the rich folk haters rely on the wealthiest 1% to feed and house us working class schmucks. All the rich folk haters must be too poor to offer a good paying job to anybody, that seems painfully obvious.

 

[griffin]

All people are doing is pointing out the definition of middle class.

Which Barack Obama did four years ago and has been doing ever since and which congress also uses. $250K is considered middle class. Maybe the upper end, but still definitely middle class.

That's only $100K each for a married couple, which is not that hard to achieve. You're already in target distance. Then add on some investment income if you're not young and you're at $250K before you know it. I know people whose base federal government salaries are more than that (combined income).

People think middle class is defined by pulling the largest group percentage-wise out of the middle of the earning curve. It isn't. Middle class also doesn't mean median income. But people have been trying to twist it into that because everyone wants to think they are middle class.

There was a time when almost everyone was lower class. Middle class is the class between the upper class and the working class. It is defined by lifestyle and capital. The reality is most people in America even today are not middle class (heck, 46% don't even pay federal income tax), but it is certainly better than it was before the industrialization of America, compulsory education, and child labor laws.

 

[RoyalTenenbaum]

+1

You need to learn how to read more carefully.

$250,000 AND LESS is what he actually said.


I'd say he is probably on target. Middle income for a "family" probably starts at about $40,000 to $50,000 on the lower end and goes up to about $250,000 at the high end.

Realize that from the socio-economic standpoint, there are many levels. Lower lower, upper lower, lower middle, middle, upper middle, lower upper and upper upper. Generally speaking all 3 brackets of the middle class (lower middle, middle middle and upper middle) are generally lumped into the term "Middle Class" for political purposes.

The above are the breakdown in classes that I learned in economics classes in college. They seem to still stand the test of time.

 

[Expat]

The Today Show dedicated the first 15 minutes of the show to the tape this morning. As would be expected, it wasn't very evenhanded. They had Savanna interviewing Nancy Pelosi for the "analysis". Of course the background portion was giving the Jimmy Carter III credit, so it had him explaining it. So the background was from Democrat hacks and the analysis was by Democrat hacks. Savanna's questions for Nancy sounded like she got her questions from Media Matters. They should have labeled the whole thing as an Obama campaign commercial.

 

[jayhawk]

The debate of the upper end of middle class is somewhat pointless since both candidates view it the same. The implication is that this matters as part of our progressive tax system.

FYI a household income between $200k - $250k would be in the 97% percentile nationally.