RSOs view of the world.. Training or the lack of it :)

[1stLast&Always]

I go to this range about once a month and I'm always wondering who I'm looking at when I see nametags on the RSO's. The only 2 who come to mind are a stocky older guy (I believe I heard him tell some kids he had been in the military) and a thin red headed guy I swear I know from days of old. He checked my LC9s for me with his "squib load stick" once. I'm always there in the evenings. NHT3, if you"re willing, send me a PM with your name and I'll say hi next time. Confidentiaity assured of course.

Haven't seen my picture here either, though seeing others' def has me more concerned!
Last time I was there some bearded hoss of a guy and his nearly as large gf came in and were shooting shotgun. Then she goes behind the line to return with a long gun case. The rifle drops out of the bottom and the butt hits the concrete... Strange as I had asked for pistol lane, shotguns and ARs were everywhere.

Hats off to you for providing your service.

Please just don't post any pics of my targets. That'd be embarrassing...

 

[NHT3]

There are SO many things I'm getting educated about where firearms are concerned. Latest nuggets of wisdom gleaned from my shift. "if you release the trigger too quickly it will cause the gun to jam". A long mechanical dissertation followed the statement but I wasn't able to follow his train of thought. Typical man instructing woman session, "don't do that, you just pointed a loaded gun at my face and the safety was off". Same couple, "don't close your eyes, just look at the spot you want to hit on the target and pull the trigger" (no mention of the sights or how to use them)..
I wish I had more time to just stop and listen but with several lanes to watch I can't dally in one spot too long.
[FONT=&amp]NRA Life Member / [/FONT]Basic Pistol instructor[FONT=&amp] / RSO[/FONT][FONT=&amp]

[/FONT][FONT=&amp]"Under pressure, you don't rise to the occasion, you sink to the level of your training. That's why we train so hard" [/FONT][FONT=&amp]
[/FONT][FONT=&amp]Unnamed Navy Seal[/FONT][FONT=&amp]

[/FONT][FONT=&amp]“Ego is the reason many men do not shoot competition. They don't want to suck in public” [/FONT][FONT=&amp]
[/FONT][FONT=&amp]
[/FONT][FONT=&amp]Aron Bright[/FONT]

 

[Tactically Fat]

if I come in with no sights on a pistol - think I can make this thread?

I've GOT to figure out a way to get mentioned in this thread.

Of course, you've never RO'd at PB when I've been there...

 

[churchmouse]

if I come in with no sights on a pistol - think I can make this thread?

I've GOT to figure out a way to get mentioned in this thread.

Of course, you've never RO'd at PB when I've been there...

I have went to the range with no sights on a 1911 build up. It was a function run in. No front or rear sights on it. I was with 2 Ingo members that I shot with weekly at the time. Hey were curious if I could hit anything with it. The little target on the top right of the full size silhouette...7 of 8 in it. 1 bare miss.

Yes you can point look and shoot.

 

[MarkC]

I have went to the range with no sights on a 1911 build up. It was a function run in. No front or rear sights on it. I was with 2 Ingo members that I shot with weekly at the time. Hey were curious if I could hit anything with it. The little target on the top right of the full size silhouette...7 of 8 in it. 1 bare miss.

Yes you can point look and shoot.

Long ago we were taught "instinctive shooting," close in action without using the sights. Got us used to drawing and firing quickly and in close quarters, since that was what was happening in many police action shootings.

As CM says, it can be done.

However, if I tried what CM described, I'm absolutely certain I would not have the rate of success he enjoyed.

 

[churchmouse]

Long ago we were taught "instinctive shooting," close in action without using the sights. Got us used to drawing and firing quickly and in close quarters, since that was what was happening in many police action shootings.

As CM says, it can be done.

However, if I tried what CM described, I'm absolutely certain I would not have the rate of success he enjoyed.

I was taught very early on to point shoot or as you say instinctive shooting. It was said this way.....if you throw a ball it will go where you are looking when you let it fly. This is pretty much true. But the secret here is when running a slab side 1911 I use the side of the slide. It is at least combat accurate.
I do have witnesses to this. That put both of them and a few others on the trail to shoot like that. Draw, look/point and fire. There is some muscle memory involved but it does work.
Many people have adapted to the front site thing. It works very well for them. Very well. I am just to old a dog to re-train.
And yes I do use my sites most of the time....

 

[NHT3]

if I come in with no sights on a pistol - think I can make this thread?

I've GOT to figure out a way to get mentioned in this thread.

Of course, you've never RO'd at PB when I've been there...

No sights won't get it, I see that on AR pistols on a regular basis. If you have the Gangstaa sights mounted on the side of the slide I promise that will get you honorable mention.


[FONT=&amp]NRA Life Member / [/FONT]Basic Pistol instructor[FONT=&amp] / RSO[/FONT][FONT=&amp]

[/FONT][FONT=&amp]"Under pressure, you don't rise to the occasion, you sink to the level of your training. That's why we train so hard" [/FONT][FONT=&amp]
[/FONT][FONT=&amp]Unnamed Navy Seal[/FONT][FONT=&amp]

[/FONT][FONT=&amp]“Ego is the reason many men do not shoot competition. They don't want to suck in public” [/FONT][FONT=&amp]
[/FONT][FONT=&amp]
[/FONT][FONT=&amp]Aron Bright[/FONT]

 

[MarkC]

I was taught very early on to point shoot or as you say instinctive shooting. It was said this way.....if you throw a ball it will go where you are looking when you let it fly. This is pretty much true. But the secret here is when running a slab side 1911 I use the side of the slide. It is at least combat accurate.
I do have witnesses to this. That put both of them and a few others on the trail to shoot like that. Draw, look/point and fire. There is some muscle memory involved but it does work.
Many people have adapted to the front site thing. It works very well for them. Very well. I am just to old a dog to re-train.
And yes I do use my sites most of the time....

I use mine most of the time, too... Even when I wasn't supposed to during that phase of qualification.

And, the way I shoot, I'm sure your shooting is far, far better than mine! I never thought about using the side of the slide. I learn something new each day, if I'm doing it right.

The muscle memory is why they had us drill over and over on it. When the pressure is on you'll revert to your training.

 

[churchmouse]

I use mine most of the time, too... Even when I wasn't supposed to during that phase of qualification.

And, the way I shoot, I'm sure your shooting is far, far better than mine! I never thought about using the side of the slide. I learn something new each day, if I'm doing it right.

The muscle memory is why they had us drill over and over on it. When the pressure is on you'll revert to your training.

That is exactly why we all need to train with our EDC.
When the heat is on no time to think bout every move we make. Some of it has to be automatic or near.

 

[Sigblitz]

I've drilled 2 gun and did pretty good. RSO repped me. It would have looked pretty stupid if it went south.

 

[Bosshoss]

But the secret here is when running a slab side 1911 I use the side of the slide. It is at least combat accurate.

Many people have adapted to the front site thing. It works very well for them. Very well. I am just to old a dog to re-train.
And yes I do use my sites most of the time....

I have to ask for discussion sake but if you are taking the time to sight down the side of the slide why not just use the sights on the top of the slide? Much more accurate and just as fast.

Pretty sure that front sight thing(as in using it) has been around as long or longer than the 1911.

 

[churchmouse]

I have to ask for discussion sake but if you are taking the time to sight down the side of the slide why not just use the sights on the top of the slide? Much more accurate and just as fast.

Pretty sure that front sight thing(as in using it) has been around as long or longer than the 1911.

It is not actually sighting the gun. Just a reference as to when I am coming to point. With my eyesight this is actually easier for me than force focus on the site blade.
If I am using the sites punishing some steel once I get them up and in focus it is fine. But man size self defense The other method is faster for me. And I have proven it to work.

Yes as long as the 1911 I just never trained that way.

Instinctive point shooting has to be practiced. Looking down the top of the slide is as effective. But like I said, force focus on the sight blade takes a moment.

You will not bulls-eye shoot this way either.

 

[rhino]

I have to ask for discussion sake but if you are taking the time to sight down the side of the slide why not just use the sights on the top of the slide? Much more accurate and just as fast.

Speaking just for me ... the answer would be because I can't see the sights anymore unless I don't wear my prescription. If I shoot with non-Rx safety glasses, I can see the front sight. If I use my prescription, it's not happening unless I tilt my head way back, so the only option is to use alternative sighting methods to verify alignment of the gun with the target.

 

[Bosshoss]

Speaking just for me ... the answer would be because I can't see the sights anymore unless I don't wear my prescription. If I shoot with non-Rx safety glasses, I can see the front sight. If I use my prescription, it's not happening unless I tilt my head way back, so the only option is to use alternative sighting methods to verify alignment of the gun with the target.

While no one knows what someone else see's I have wore glasses since like 3 years old and had eye surgery at 6. I have struggled with vision and shooting all my life. This getting old thing has added to the fun.
I do wear shooting glasses when competing but I find they help keep me focused on the front sight not necessarily see it better. I can shoot fine without them although probably slightly(very slightly) less accurate. It would only affect me when shooting groups not USPSA.
With just safety glasses and no prescription I really can't see for crap but I can still see sights or sight like shapes sitting on top of a slide better than guessing by sighting down the side of a slide with no references. Just my opinion.

 

[churchmouse]

While no one knows what someone else see's I have wore glasses since like 3 years old and had eye surgery at 6. I have struggled with vision and shooting all my life. This getting old thing has added to the fun.
I do wear shooting glasses when competing but I find they help keep me focused on the front sight not necessarily see it better. I can shoot fine without them although probably slightly(very slightly) less accurate. It would only affect me when shooting groups not USPSA.
With just safety glasses and no prescription I really can't see for crap but I can still see sights or sight like shapes sitting on top of a slide better than guessing by sighting down the side of a slide with no references. Just my opinion.

I guess I need to show you sometime......
Been doing this most of my life and it is more battle accurate than anything. But it works for me. The fellas I mentioned up stream work with it as well. They are getting pretty good actually.
I think there has been a small miss-understanding. I do not use the slide when point shooting past a slight reference window when I am coming to bear. I will use it when more accuracy is required and I am struggling with the sights.

 

[Bosshoss]

Instinctive point shooting has to be practiced. Looking down the top of the slide is as effective. But like I said, force focus on the sight blade takes a moment.

If someone is bringing the gun up in front of their face and not hip shooting then it doesn't take any longer to front sight focus than using the side of the slide and it is way more accurate. It takes practice but when my gun comes up into my vision I have the front sight already located before the gun gets up to the point where I'm ready to break the shot.
I have always said that in shooting competition or anything speed related with guns you need to learn to see faster instead of shoot faster.

Edit: well you were typing the same time I was.

 

[churchmouse]

If someone is bringing the gun up in front of their face and not hip shooting then it doesn't take any longer to front sight focus than using the side of the slide and it is way more accurate. It takes practice but when my gun comes up into my vision I have the front sight already located before the gun gets up to the point where I'm ready to break the shot.
I have always said that in shooting competition or anything speed related with guns you need to learn to see faster instead of shoot faster.

Do what works for you my friend. No argument here. This is not something I do all the time but when I am training on point shoot it works pretty good. For me any way.

 

[Bosshoss]

Do what works for you my friend. No argument here. This is not something I do all the time but when I am training on point shoot it works pretty good. For me any way.

No problem CM just discussing it.

I guess I don't know what battle accuracy and point shooting is as I want every shot whether in competition or if needed in self defense to hit right where I want it to hit. Doesn't always work out that way but I try.

Yes we should shoot together sometime sounds like fun.

 

[churchmouse]

No problem CM just discussing it.

I guess I don't know what battle accuracy and point shooting is as I want every shot whether in competition or if needed in self defense to hit right where I want it to hit. Doesn't always work out that way but I try.

Yes we should shoot together sometime sounds like fun.

Point shoot center mass.
Yes. I need to get up to one of your competitions. KJ said he had a really great time.

 

[Bosshoss]

Point shoot center mass.
Yes. I need to get up to one of your competitions. KJ said he had a really great time.

We do have a good time with the emphasis on safety and having fun.
First matches entry is on me my friend.