rules for making a private sale

[jperry]

I just listed my glock 17 on armslist. Since I haven't done this before I was wondering what the rules are for a private sale and what are my responsibilities as the seller. I just don't want to sell a weapon to someone who is not allowed to have one.

 

[K_W]

Here you go... NRA-ILA | Indiana

 

[JeremiahJohnson]

You can't ship except FFL to FFL, so unless someone local purchases it you must go through FFL. If you're concerned you can always meet at a local gun shop (local purchase) and let them pay for a background check before you do the transaction. Lot of guys on here just ask for a driver's license and carry permit - driver's license proves who they are and carry permit says that person had a background check.

 

[JeremiahJohnson]

OH - on the driver's license - they have to be over 18. An 18 year old in Indiana can have a permit to carry but still may not purchase a hand gun.

 

[M67]

You don't have to ship from an FFL. Just depends what state it's going to and what the local FFL's policy is. Some shops won't receive a firearm unless shipped from an FFL

And a person in Indiana can be 18 and purchase a handgun, as long as it's from an individual and not a FFL.

As for the carry license, it really doesn't matter. The state can issue a carry license, but the background check is ran through the FBI or a contractor, which would be federal. You can actually have a carry license and get denied or delayed on a 4473

If you sell to someone local, just to be safe, cover yourself by copying down their personal information or at least DLN on a bill of sales form. If they have a carry license I'd make a note of it but it's not a requirement but seeing that little pink piece of paper does make some people feel safer selling a handgun

 

[pudly]

OH - on the driver's license - they have to be over 18. An 18 year old in Indiana can have a permit to carry but still may not purchase a hand gun.

Correction- They can purchase a handgun from an individual, but you must be 21 to purchase from an FFL. That's the law for you...

If you haven't read them recently, it is always a good idea to review the Indiana Code. The primary section dealing with guns is: http://www.in.gov/legislative/ic/code/title35/ar47/

 

[DRob]

There's rules and there's laws. Laws are pretty well stated above. As for rules.........I set rules beyond what the law requires when/if I sell a gun. FTF, paperwork, ID, LTCH preferred. Simple enough. My gun, my game.

 

[jperry]

Thanks everyone. I feel better about it after reading all of that.

 

[LarryC]

OH - on the driver's license - they have to be over 18. An 18 year old in Indiana can have a permit to carry but still may not purchase a hand gun.

This is INCORRECT: You are correct if your purchasing from a LICENSED DEALER as they are bound by Federal regulations, however a PRIVATE Citizen (not a licensed dealer) may sell a handgun to any INDIANA RESIDENT 18 years of age or older.

The federal law states you can sell to any RESIDENT of the same state as you reside as long as you do not "KNOW OR HAVE REASONABLE CAUSE TO BELIEVE" that the person is not legally allowed to possess a firearm. Therefore if you view a valid INDIANA drivers license showing the person to be 18, and don't know or have a reasonable cause to believe that the person is not illegal to possess a gun, you have no liability to be concerned about. You are not required or asked to do any research on a persons background, in fact there is no way an individual can acquire the information from the NICS check.

I know of many people that purchase and possess firearm that do not have a LTCH, these include my own elder sisters and BIL and good friends that are exemplary persons. They possess firearms for hunting, targeting, home protection, etc. but do not carry for personal protection.

If I wanted to sell any of my collection, I personally would not require any more information than that required by law. It is everyone's option, however although I have my lifetime LTCH and also a FFL-03 (collector of Curio and Relics), I probably would not purchase a firearm from anyone that requires more information than the law requires. I really think we have far more "laws" and rules than necessary, in the recent tragedies it has been proven that none help prevent crime. In my opinion these rules and laws only hinder honest citizens from possess the right to protect themselves and raise the cost of firearm ownership. As a true supporter of the 2nd Amendment RIGHT, do not believe I or anyone else should add more!

A criminal or person not legal to possess a firearm certainly can obtain one through many channels, Theft, purchasing from other criminals, trading for drugs etc. so I don't believe concerns that require lawful citizens to "prove themselves" have any effect on criminal gun use.

 

[TJ Kackowski]

I just listed my glock 17 on armslist. Since I haven't done this before I was wondering what the rules are for a private sale and what are my responsibilities as the seller. I just don't want to sell a weapon to someone who is not allowed to have one.

If you were a little more patient, or spent an hour or so in the political forum, you'd have the minimum posts necessary to list in the INGO classifieds. The folks on this site are way better to deal with than any other site.

 

[jperry]

I didn't think of that tj, great idea.

I ended up selling it on armslist. I took my time and weeded out the sketchy ones and ended up getting what I wanted for it. From a great guy that is a member on here. He had some great advice and we both got a good deal. But by next time I will have enough posts to just sell it on here.

I took the cash went to beech grove firearms and got a great deal on a cz 75 sp01 tactical they had just got in. Man was I lucky. Just what I was looking for. For 10 bucks more than a cz 75 b and p01 I had my eye on at a different lgs.

 

[jperry]

Thanks everyone for the advice

 

[ryknoll3]

You can't ship except FFL to FFL, so unless someone local purchases it you must go through FFL. If you're concerned you can always meet at a local gun shop (local purchase) and let them pay for a background check before you do the transaction. Lot of guys on here just ask for a driver's license and carry permit - driver's license proves who they are and carry permit says that person had a background check.

You don't have to ship from an FFL. Just depends what state it's going to and what the local FFL's policy is. Some shops won't receive a firearm unless shipped from an FFL

And a person in Indiana can be 18 and purchase a handgun, as long as it's from an individual and not a FFL.

As for the carry license, it really doesn't matter. The state can issue a carry license, but the background check is ran through the FBI or a contractor, which would be federal. You can actually have a carry license and get denied or delayed on a 4473

If you sell to someone local, just to be safe, cover yourself by copying down their personal information or at least DLN on a bill of sales form. If they have a carry license I'd make a note of it but it's not a requirement but seeing that little pink piece of paper does make some people feel safer selling a handgun

To add to this. You, as an individual are able to mail long guns to anyone not prohibited who is in your state or to yourself or an FFL out of state. As an individual, you can ship handguns to an FFL out of state, but they can't go through the mail. They must be shipped via UPS or FedEx, subject to their policies (UPS and FedEx policies are not law, you will not be in trouble if you don't follow them, but your handgun may not be shipped or insurance claims not honored).

 

[pgfrmr]

This is INCORRECT: You are correct if your purchasing from a LICENSED DEALER as they are bound by Federal regulations, however a PRIVATE Citizen (not a licensed dealer) may sell a handgun to any INDIANA RESIDENT 18 years of age or older.

The federal law states you can sell to any RESIDENT of the same state as you reside as long as you do not "KNOW OR HAVE REASONABLE CAUSE TO BELIEVE" that the person is not legally allowed to possess a firearm. Therefore if you view a valid INDIANA drivers license showing the person to be 18, and don't know or have a reasonable cause to believe that the person is not illegal to possess a gun, you have no liability to be concerned about. You are not required or asked to do any research on a persons background, in fact there is no way an individual can acquire the information from the NICS check.

I know of many people that purchase and possess firearm that do not have a LTCH, these include my own elder sisters and BIL and good friends that are exemplary persons. They possess firearms for hunting, targeting, home protection, etc. but do not carry for personal protection.

If I wanted to sell any of my collection, I personally would not require any more information than that required by law. It is everyone's option, however although I have my lifetime LTCH and also a FFL-03 (collector of Curio and Relics), I probably would not purchase a firearm from anyone that requires more information than the law requires. I really think we have far more "laws" and rules than necessary, in the recent tragedies it has been proven that none help prevent crime. In my opinion these rules and laws only hinder honest citizens from possess the right to protect themselves and raise the cost of firearm ownership. As a true supporter of the 2nd Amendment RIGHT, do not believe I or anyone else should add more!

A criminal or person not legal to possess a firearm certainly can obtain one through many channels, Theft, purchasing from other criminals, trading for drugs etc. so I don't believe concerns that require lawful citizens to "prove themselves" have any effect on criminal gun use.

^^^^this^^^^

 

[phatgemi]

It amazes me how much incorrect info continues to be put out there. Esp the 18yo rule. And then when the rule is explained, a lot of guys still wont sell to a 18yo ftf. Just want to be sure they say. Then you have the crowd that wants to see a LTCH to purchase a LONG gun.

 

[Rick983]

I asked an ATFE agent in Indianapolis about a collector selling a modern gun to an individual. His response was: The seller is responsible to make sure the buyer is from Indiana (check drivers license) and be 21 or over. He did not differentiate between handgun or rifle. I asked if I could sell directly to an individual in another state. His response was NO. I then thought I would get cagey and asked how many guns must a collector sell to be defined as a dealer with the ATFE. He smiled and walked off. Moral of the story, by not defining a set number of sales, the ATFE leaves themselves a lot of wiggle room. I don't want to start arguments, this is what I was told.

 

[phatgemi]

I asked an ATFE agent in Indianapolis about a collector selling a modern gun to an individual. His response was: The seller is responsible to make sure the buyer is from Indiana (check drivers license) and be 21 or over. He did not differentiate between handgun or rifle. I asked if I could sell directly to an individual in another state. His response was NO. I then thought I would get cagey and asked how many guns must a collector sell to be defined as a dealer with the ATFE. He smiled and walked off. Moral of the story, by not defining a set number of sales, the ATFE leaves themselves a lot of wiggle room. I don't want to start arguments, this is what I was told.

I would say your ATFE agent was already wrong. No need to be 21 for private sale. He started out by giving you bum info. So the real moral of the story is while they do like wiggle room, they accomplish it by not knowing what the hell they are talking about. Either that or you misunderstood. Now if you meant a FFL dealer (collector), things could change.

 

[jwh20]

Read the law, if in doubt ask questions. Still not sure, seek an ATTORNEY not an BATF agent!

But it's really not that complicated. If it's an Indiana resident, check ID to make sure they are a resident and are 18. If you have concerns that they might not be legit, ask to see their LTCH. Not 100% proof but a reasonable precaution. Still unsure or uneasy, go to an FFL and have them broker the transfer. They will run a BG check and give a go/no-go and, obviously, collect a fee.

Outside Indiana have the buyer choose an FFL on his end. If it's an FFL that will accept a shipment from a non-FFL, then you can just ship the firearm to the FFL and they will take care of the transfer. IF the FFL on the other end will not accept a shipment from a non-FFL (it's their choice but NOT required by law) Then be sure the buyer is paying for it and take it to an FFL here and they will ship it to the other FFL.

Above all, AGREE on all this with the buyer in advance. It's best to put all your requirements in the ArmsList listing to avoid hard feelings and misunderstandings.

By the way, I prefer GunBroker to ArmsList but you do pay for the added value.

 

[TheDude]

It amazes me how much incorrect info continues to be put out there. Esp the 18yo rule. And then when the rule is explained, a lot of guys still wont sell to a 18yo ftf. Just want to be sure they say. Then you have the crowd that wants to see a LTCH to purchase a LONG gun.

I never saw a problem with this if their not recording your info. This gives me "Red flags" when guys get uptight about this. I think some people think by not offering info that they are getting an "off the grid" firearm but PMs are e-mails and I can guarantee that these are recorded somewhere.....I guarantee it!

 

[phatgemi]

It has nothing to do with hiding from the federales. It has nothing to do with being off the grid. It simply has to do with gun owners adding hurdles that are not required by law. There is no requirement to have a LTCH to buy a long gun. Sorry if that raises your "red flags". But why have flag poles when big brother doesn't require. You probably think registration is ok too. I mean what does a law abiding citizen have to hide.