SB 577 To Cut Veteran's Benefits in IN.

[mammynun]

My issue is not as much that the funding would be cut, but that it would be taken from one group and "redistributed" to another. We all have to take our fiscal medicine, but there isn't even a net gain for Indiana in this legislation. It's true that this may affect me personally, but it would be a much easier pill to swallow if it were to simply go away. The taxes that I pay, in some small part, pay for this program; not many incarcerated felons pay as much (any?) tax.

When I moved to Indiana I did not know about this program; I found out about it through the VA when purchasing a home. Was I excited? Well, yes, I was.
The oldest boy decided to join the military, so the benefit was not used. He's now an E-6 using his own benefits to pay for his own education (as I did).
Youngest boy has Asperger's/Autism and is unlikely to take advantage of this program.
My daughter has good enough grades and is motivated, she will use this program if available.
The middle son? Let's just say he's more likely to benefit from the passage of SB 577 than its failure.

I agree that benefits/entitlements(?) need to be cut across the board. What I question in re SB 577 is the method; there's no real savings to the taxpayer and on a philosophic level I disagree with rewarding the least productive members of society at the expense of veterans. Or police. Or fire.

 

[Pocketman]

... I agree that benefits/entitlements(?) need to be cut across the board. What I question in re SB 577 is the method; there's no real savings to the taxpayer and on a philosophic level I disagree with rewarding the least productive members of society at the expense of veterans. Or police. Or fire.

George Washington is attributed as saying something like "The willingness with which our young people are likely to serve in any war, no matter how justified, is directly proportional to how the veterans of earlier wars were treated and appreciated" The truth is, many veterans have been getting the shaft in every war since, and including, the Revolution. Yet we still answer the bugle's call. Speaking for myself, it was to serve my country in an hour of need. For others, it's to reap the benefits. I took advantage of the GI bill. Many do not. To each his own I say.

Since my child graduated college under Indiana's fee waiver program, I may come across sounding hypocritical. 1,000 pardons if that happens. When applying for the program, I was very specific about not wanting to take funds away from a more deserving veteran's child. I was assured there was no pot of money, it was strictly a fee waiver. Apparently that's not entirely true. If the State is short of funds and needs to cut programs, that's one thing. If they want to cut veterans' benefits and give the money to prisoners, that's just plain wrong.

 

[IncendiaryGunner]

I think for the case of schooling, if we go by the rules already in place, the majority age is considered 23. Until 23 years of age, FAFSA considers a student a dependent of their parents. The parent's and student's income are taken into consideration when handing out grant money - those with lower socioeconomic status are given more grants, while those students whose parent make more are not given anything.

I just personally feel the entire way our federal system considers young men and women the economic responsibilities of their parents for schooling is a gaping flaw. Not all parents are responsible, and the student's future should not be limited by the actions and savings of their parents. I have met people I went to school with that were in that exact situation - the federal government considered that their parents should be footing the bill, so they gave them no aid, while their parents told them to man up and pay your own way - forcing them out of school due to money alone.

Higher education should not be a direct line into large sums of money from the government and the savings of parents. The cost is ridiculous, and the longer we hand a lifetime of savings or debt to the school systems, the longer costs will inflate.

If higher education was on par with other commodities, this would not even be an issue. Nobody's kid would need aid like this to make it through school.

 

[CVMA544]

My issue is not as much that the funding would be cut, but that it would be taken from one group and "redistributed" to another. We all have to take our fiscal medicine, but there isn't even a net gain for Indiana in this legislation. It's true that this may affect me personally, but it would be a much easier pill to swallow if it were to simply go away. The taxes that I pay, in some small part, pay for this program; not many incarcerated felons pay as much (any?) tax.

When I moved to Indiana I did not know about this program; I found out about it through the VA when purchasing a home. Was I excited? Well, yes, I was.
The oldest boy decided to join the military, so the benefit was not used. He's now an E-6 using his own benefits to pay for his own education (as I did).
Youngest boy has Asperger's/Autism and is unlikely to take advantage of this program.
My daughter has good enough grades and is motivated, she will use this program if available.
The middle son? Let's just say he's more likely to benefit from the passage of SB 577 than its failure.

I agree that benefits/entitlements(?) need to be cut across the board. What I question in re SB 577 is the method; there's no real savings to the taxpayer and on a philosophic level I disagree with rewarding the least productive members of society at the expense of veterans. Or police. Or fire.

HOOAH to your son and Godspeed for any future deployments.

I say this sincerely not just in passing like Have a Nice Day, Thanks for your service, and to your son for his service.

Stu

 

[CarmelHP]

I was assured there was no pot of money, it was strictly a fee waiver. Apparently that's not entirely true.

No, I believe that's correct, that's the way the law is written, but Kenley serves the interest of the administration at IU and Purdue that hate to see one penny fall through their grubby little fingers. As I said before, Kenley carried IU and Purdue's water in getting the campus carry bill chloroformed a few sessions back. He's not serving you. I'm sure he's looking forward to some fat administrator job he was promised at a state school just like most of the former legislators. Quid pro quo and all that, but vets can go to hell. He needs to be removed from the legislature and IU and Purdue and the rest need their wings clipped.

 

[JJ1977]

As a vetran my self, I can see what the up set this legal situation is going to bring to the board. I am a disabled vet at a rating of 100% and I have to agree that it doens't metter in my opinon that one has a 100% or 50%, they should be entitled to have their children covered by this at a 100%. These vets all have served for their country and its more than likely that their children will follow in their foot steps. The least we can do is help with a higher education for these children before they make a decission to possibly go into harms way for our way of life. Criminals are put behind the walls for purspose, not to take away whats due for those that have served.

 

[lumpy39us]

logical differences

So, lessons learned.
I have been supporting and defending my Country for many years. As my Children were born and continued to grow, every morning Daddy put on his uniform and served his Nation proudly. Though not to be misunderstood, of course there are problems but they were intelligently discussed and solutions were implimented.
The criminal,
Was raised in a violent upbringing, one parent, maybe getting the crap kicked out of him or her self everyday, not to mention the other abuses they, the children of State regulation, suffer. Most have embraced their calling in life and are sure to return to it, CRIME.
So it would make sense to invest in our future with realistic debate.
Crime is big business, so what would best serve the interests of this Nation?
Educated criminals? Not sure I understand the reason behind this.
The story doesn't matter, the Nation and it's direction are the determining factors. What we accept now will determine our future for many generations to come.
Read the words, consider them today!
But what about tomorrow?
My Son grew up to be interested in serving his Nation, Navy Vet and currently a Corrections Officer.
The Daughter is almost completed with her College, thanks to the VA disabled college program. She has chosen to help The unfortunate children these wonderful Criminal and abusive Families have provided us.
So what will an educated criminal provide us with?
Just my thoughts.
I know what my Service and continued Duty provided the Nation with. For my Children are the future.
Please find some statistics, though I know there are some bad apples. I am very grateful of my luck and am very proud of my children.
Decisions and acceptance of ideas like this make me realize the future is going to be a very dangerous place.

 

[T_V]

Everyone needs to flood Kenley with emails of Disgust!!!! I wonder if he has any relatives that would benefit from this??????????

 

[IncendiaryGunner]

So, lessons learned.
I have been supporting and defending my Country for many years. As my Children were born and continued to grow, every morning Daddy put on his uniform and served his Nation proudly. Though not to be misunderstood, of course there are problems but they were intelligently discussed and solutions were implimented.
The criminal,
Was raised in a violent upbringing, one parent, maybe getting the crap kicked out of him or her self everyday, not to mention the other abuses they, the children of State regulation, suffer. Most have embraced their calling in life and are sure to return to it, CRIME.
So it would make sense to invest in our future with realistic debate.
Crime is big business, so what would best serve the interests of this Nation?
Educated criminals? Not sure I understand the reason behind this.
The story doesn't matter, the Nation and it's direction are the determining factors. What we accept now will determine our future for many generations to come.
Read the words, consider them today!
But what about tomorrow?
My Son grew up to be interested in serving his Nation, Navy Vet and currently a Corrections Officer.
The Daughter is almost completed with her College, thanks to the VA disabled college program. She has chosen to help The unfortunate children these wonderful Criminal and abusive Families have provided us.
So what will an educated criminal provide us with?
Just my thoughts.
I know what my Service and continued Duty provided the Nation with. For my Children are the future.
Please find some statistics, though I know there are some bad apples. I am very grateful of my luck and am very proud of my children.
Decisions and acceptance of ideas like this make me realize the future is going to be a very dangerous place.

Education gives people the option to no longer be a criminal - or to not become a criminal in the first place.

People that want to always be criminals, will not worry about going to school. (White collar criminals aside, which is a totally different discussion)

People can change, although most will not. I just doubt the argument that people going to college are doing so to become better equipped criminals.

 

[DocBoCook]

CVMA544, flood this A$$es email box with your anger man. I am going to raise heck into my own representatives mailbox.

 

[CVMA544]

CVMA544, flood this A$ email box with your anger man. I am going to raise heck into my own representatives mailbox.

I did/have, heres the one I send. (In case your didn't see it)

Crime pays, service doesn't is the message I get from this.

As the conservative that I am, I stepped up twice and was sent to war for this country in two wars. (Once as an IRR member the other as a National Guard member)

I see you graduated law school in 72 which is what three years?

But yet you list US ARMY from 69-71.

How did you find time to go to law school and serve in the US ARMY at the same time?

Or where you one of them fellows that joined National Guard or Reserve and went to college instead of Vietnam and now want to tout your service like you were active duty to impress people with your "Veteran" status?

And if by chance you are a Vietnam Vet then you should know that you can have a greatly diminished earning capability in civilian life from service connected disabilities far less than the 80% standard you applied to SB577.

If you think I am taking this a little personal, yeah I am.

I am 100% disabled from combat related injuries during my tour in Iraq.

My son has two tours in Iraq.

My daughter has one tour in Iraq.

My ex son in law and Grandsons father has two tours in Iraq, one of which he served with me.

My second Grandson's father was KIA in Iraq on his second tour.

SO why are convicts so much more important than Veterans kids?

You know there is a far greater probability that those Veterans kids will go on to serve in the military than any of those felons who for whatever reason decided to break the law and become a burden to the society the Disabled Veterans chose to defend.

I don't expect a reply, don't bother, there is no way you can justify SB577 I don't care what you say



Thats me, spreadin the luv man, spreadin the luv..

 

[duffman0286]

being a 2 time OIF disabled yet 2006 &2008 nothing makes me madder.... had to update this i had to email him my disgust

 

[OEF5]

Ok I have not read the whole thread, I have however read some of this bill.

I would like to make a comment about one of Jedi's statements...Sorry you are wrong, yes it is a child of a disabled Veteran however that is a that is part of the Veterans service rated benefit. I will give you my personal example, I have a 50% service related disability, under the current law all of my children can go to any state funded college tuition free. If they pass this bill, I will have to come out of pocket for 30% of that tuition because that 30% is going to pay for Joe Dirtbagrapist to get an education.

I’m all for defending the country, I’m all for giving people rights and innocent until proven guilty, but those sob’s are in prison, they should have done something with the life and the choices myself and all the other veterans gave them.
What we need to have happen is that everyone get on the horn and ask for this bill to be gone.

I know that this was brought up at our Drill this weekend and it's how I found out about it. I also found this link about it as well, they even have who voted yes to this tard bill. MarinesOfIndiana.com

I don't come into the political section much but this is something that needs to be stopped, any of the Soldiers and sailors serving now will lose out on one of the best things Indiana has going for it for DAV's.

Here is the letter I sent to Senator young:
Senator Young,

I am not only a state employee, but an Indiana Veteran of Foreign Wars. I served in Afghanistan from 2004-2005 and sustained injuries while in combat for this great nation. As a result of my injuries I was awarded a 50% disability rating for the VA.

After hearing about SB 577 at Drill this weekend and doing some further research I am appalled at what I have learned. I did not defend this great nation so that my benefits could be taken from me or my children and given to convicted felons who chose to use the freedoms that myself and thousands of other veterans allowed them to have.

At my current rating I would have to pay out of pocket 30% of my child’s tuition to any state funded school, while that 30% I’m supposed to get, goes to someone who does not deserve to have such a thing. I understand that they are still human and that they have some rights left, but to me when they committed the crime that landed them with the felony and incarceration they gave some of those rights away. In my current job with the state I work with education and training of Adults, and there is a bill on the floor to give my department oversight for the ABE system in Indiana which has a large percentage of inmates in it. I understand the need to educate them, I’m not against that, I am against them taking money from wounded or even killed military families.

Why should I or my kids have to give more support to a convicted felon than I already do by paying taxes and being a productive member of society?

Please vote no on this bill

 

[Pocketman]

This was passed by the Appropriations Committee, completely along party lines.

NO (Democrats)
BRODEN, JOHN
HUME LINDEL
ROGERS, EARLINE
TALLIAN, KAREN

YES (Republicans)
CHARBONNEAU, ED
BOOTS, PHIL
KENLEY, LUKE
LAWSON, CONNIE
MILLER, PATRICIA
MISHLER, RYAN
WALTZ, BRENT
WYSS, THOMAS

 

[OEF5]

It should be pointed out that the author of the bill was also the chair of the comity.

It does surprise me that all of the democrats voted no.

 

[MACHINEGUN]

This is complete bull****.. what the **** are people in [STRIKE]Washington DC[/STRIKE] Indiana thinking?

I must say that's a good way to **** off just about every Veteran in the United States.. we all earned these benefits.. none of this money should go to "people" in prison.

What did they do to deserve a free college education?

Nothing.. that's what they did.. well besides being a scurge of society.

Anyone who says this is alright, well.. nevermind.. I'll keep my thoughts to myself on this one.

 

[MACHINEGUN]

Taged, I will be sending out letters.

This is a much more effective method of communication rather than email.. I'll be doing the exact same thing today.

 

[CVMA544]

This is complete bull****.. what the **** are people in [strike]Washington DC[/strike] Indiana thinking?

I must say that's a good way to **** off just about every Veteran in the United States.. we all earned these benefits.. none of this money should go to "people" in prison.

What did they do to deserve a free college education?

Nothing.. that's what they did.. well besides being a scurge of society.

Anyone who says this is alright, well.. nevermind.. I'll keep my thoughts to myself on this one.

Indiana, Washington, ah, same thing most of the time I guess.

I wonder if the future of the way vets are treated will end up with a protest in DC.

I know when VA Watchdog was running that it was talked about over the VA's treatment of vets.

I wouldn't put it past the administration (either party) having a repeat of the assault on the WWI Bonus Marchers if a large protest were to occur.

The mass of WWII vets gave them a large block of voting power, today we are a minority compared to other groups and a group the MSM are more than willing to demonized if it suits the progessive agenda.

Generally we are more middle to conservative (Not always Republican) and we can't be counted on for the vote as we are not always a single issue voter.

Basically I have always thought the bottom line is we scare them.

Alot of us have faced death, and/or been the bringer of death. We believe in ourselves, we know what we are capable of, and even the weakest in our ranks have had the guts to do (Peacetime or war time) what most politicians wouldn't do.

What is that you ask? We took an oath, made a commitment, stood a post, and dared those who would put us under to take their best shot even at the cost of our own lives.

This type of commitment makes most politicians lose bladder control, and those who support them and would bring this country down to a state of confusion as we are the trump card that stands with the people and for the constituion.

However this is the internet and the opinion above is worth exactly what you paid for it.

 

[MACHINEGUN]

Indiana, Washington, ah, same thing most of the time I guess.

I wonder if the future of the way vets are treated will end up with a protest in DC.

I know when VA Watchdog was running that it was talked about over the VA's treatment of vets.

I wouldn't put it past the administration (either party) having a repeat of the assault on the WWI Bonus Marchers if a large protest were to occur.

The mass of WWII vets gave them a large block of voting power, today we are a minority compared to other groups and a group the MSM are more than willing to demonized if it suits the progessive agenda.

Generally we are more middle to conservative (Not always Republican) and we can't be counted on for the vote as we are not always a single issue voter.

Basically I have always thought the bottom line is we scare them.

Alot of us have faced death, and/or been the bringer of death. We believe in ourselves, we know what we are capable of, and even the weakest in our ranks have had the guts to do (Peacetime or war time) what most politicians wouldn't do.

What is that you ask? We took an oath, made a commitment, stood a post, and dared those who would put us under to take their best shot even at the cost of our own lives.

This type of commitment makes most politicians lose bladder control, and those who support them and would bring this country down to a state of confusion as we are the trump card that stands with the people and for the constituion.

However this is the internet and the opinion above is worth exactly what you paid for it.

I'm all out of rep.. best thing I've read on INGO in awhile! More rep when I have some!

 

[OEF5]

I got him for you, it was a great post