Seeking SHTF weapon advice

[Cannon762]

I'm in the financial situation at this point in my life where I can really only afford having about 2 firearms at any given time including my carry weapon. At this point I have a G19 for carry and an Arsenal SGL-21.

So from the SHTF mindset, as opposed to hunting/recreation, and the talk of a possible AWB (as well as steadily rising prices) got me pondering the idea if a VEPR/Saiga 12 could be a better candidate for a SHTF long gun than my current Arsenal SGL. I felt it was more appropriate for this subforum than Long Guns because my long gun will be need to have traits that coincide with survival/disaster preparedness (reliability, availability of ammuntion, utility, durability, etc.)

I've owned several 7.62 AK pattern rifles and love them, but I keep finding attraction to the 12's is the ability to have more utility in my ammunition selection, with the cons being less packable ammunition (if we had to bug-out) and a little sacrifice on reliability depending on my luck with a 12.

Talked to some RL friends about it and got mixed views, thought I'd ask the INGO surv/disaster crew on your guy's thoughts/preferences.

tl;dr: You have a choice of an AK pattern rifle in 7.62, or an AK pattern 12ga and can only pick one for SHTF.

 

[Classic]

Good question. I have always thought I could get by with 3 if I had to. 45 ACP handgun, .308 rifle and 12 ga. scattergun.

 

[David Rose]

7.62
Good luck finding 12ga AK mags if the plastic ones that come with it break.
If you just want to add something in 12ga there are plenty of cheaper options.

 

[Cannon762]

7.62
Good luck finding 12ga AK mags if the plastic ones that come with it break.
If you just want to add something in 12ga there are plenty of cheaper options.

Magazines! I knew I was forgetting something. Excellent point.

 

[Kmcinnes]

I think it is wise to have a 22 rifle for hunting small game and they are quiet, a a rifle in .308/7.62 nato for big game/long range defense, AR style in .223/5.56 nato as a force multiplier, 12 gauge shot gun for hunting/home defense and a 9mm pistol for personal defense. In my mind those will be the most plentiful calibers in SHTF and they are military calibers as well.

 

[roisigns]

What distance do you plan to shoot?

Glock 9 mm...50 feet....$500 Can do CC.

Shotgun..150 feet...$300

Ruger 10/22....300 feet....$200

Ar-15...$700...1000 feet.

Some of these prices are for used guns.

This ain't rocket science.

 

[Hajisc]

Whatever you choose make sure you have plenty of ammo. You can never have enough.

 

[IndyDave1776]

Stay with a rifle over a shotgun if you have to choose one over the other. You can fire multiple shots but you cannot milk extra range out of a shotgun sufficient to compete with hostile rifles.

 

[TiminMishawaka]

If I were you I'd mow lawns, collect bottles, paint houses, shovel snow, scrap metal, sell stuff you don't use or whatever to come up with 200 bucks and get a .22 rifle. Remove the mindset that you have no option but to compromise your current battery. If the S were to truly HTF, you already have a defensive rifle and pistol and the rifle can easily take big game too. You need a foraging gun. You're not going to be shooting birds on the wing so a shotgun is a luxury. A shotgun would be ideal for taking both small and big game but you already have a big game rifle so it's not needed. You are going to take targets of opportunity and that's what a .22 is for. I have picked up a .22 rifle and a .22 revolver for $200 a piece. Either one could be a foraging gun and each has obvious advantages. The .22 revolver I got is a simple Taurus 9 shot revolver and I love it. It would be a reasonable while not ideal b.u.g. to your Glock as well.

 

[Tactical Dave]

A .22 in any form is pretty much a must. Ammo is cheap, great for hunting,, everyone and their brother has one, sub sonic ammo even with no suppressor is still fairly quiet.

The way I see I is if things ver got really bad and had to go looking for ammo or weapons for ammo you have what are the most popular calibers by far?


.223/5.56/7.62X39/12 gauge/.22 LR

9mm/45 auto

Granted the .45 is not nearly as plentiful as 9mm but think of it like this, if you were to walk into an abandoned property or found a stash how likely are you to find one of the above? Very likely if you ask me compared to say a .308. Granted .308 is popular but not as plentiful as the others.

 

[churchmouse]

If money is an issue for you, and know it is for most of us, you should first know what you want versus what we tell you you want. I am lucky enough to have all my tactical weapons covered so my opinion will be where you should start. Force multiplier. Semi-auto battle rifle of a caliber you want and are comfortable with. You say the AK variants are acceptable to you, go in that direction as you have experience with them. Build up a supply of ammunition that suits your needs and then focus on a shotgun. 12 gauge or stay home in my humble opinion but battle rifle first.

 

[zclevenger]

I would stick to an ak style rifle, and then save up and get a cheap .22 at a gunshow. Here in ft wayne there was gun show today several bolt action .22's for around 100-150. After getting a .22 if you insist on getting a shotgun look for a cheap mossberg 500 or rem 870 if you save and are patient you can find them used for about 250ish. I would just wait on the shotgun until you have the .22 and an amount of ammo you are comfortable with for each of the other guns first.

 

[IndyDave1776]

If money is an issue for you, and know it is for most of us, you should first know what you want versus what we tell you you want. I am lucky enough to have all my tactical weapons covered so my opinion will be where you should start. Force multiplier. Semi-auto battle rifle of a caliber you want and are comfortable with. You say the AK variants are acceptable to you, go in that direction as you have experience with them. Build up a supply of ammunition that suits your needs and then focus on a shotgun. 12 gauge or stay home in my humble opinion but battle rifle first.

Churchmouse is right as usual!

 

[Kmcinnes]

Churchmouse is right as usual!

Don't listen to him church, we don't want you to get a big head,

 

[LEaSH]

If cost is a primary factor, I don't think that a MN 91/30 will put too big a dent in your wallet.

Just an other angle. Ammo is pretty reasonable, too.

 

[churchmouse]

Don't listen to him church, we don't want you to get a big head,

Aw shucks.

I do have to agree with owning a .22 LR at least in semi auto. Bolt guns are OK but semi's are available at good prices these days and are easily muffled in a SHTF scenario. There is some wicked ammo available for a .22 as well. We found some 1650 FPS CCI at Premier Arms in Brownsburg that really cracks. Huge improvement over the 1250 FPS CCI and they try to keep it in stock. Something to consider.

 

[halfmileharry]

SHTF has many scenarios. How many can you carry at one time?
I carry my 1911 and a few extra mags at all times.
I have a good supply of firearms and ammo at home but IF I am away from home and SHTF then I have to consider what will get me home or to a safe location. There's NO way I can move around in my daily life and carry everything needed for all situations. IF you just need your 2 guns for home then you need to consider your needs. City or country? Range? Hunting? Defense?. Are you going to bug out and relocate? Are you capable of long range shots or are you just going to sling lead in the general direction?
Your needs and limitations should dictate what you decide on.
I personally believe in dependable long lasting weapons. I know a lot of popular guns are known to have issues and break down so I stay with tried and true guns.

 

[ThrottleJockey]

A 12g pump and a 10/22. You will get as many different answers as you get responses but this combo will serve you well in ALL situations of everyday life as well as SHTF/TEOTWAWKI. Personally I keep a beretta .40 and a CX4 in .40 along with the 10/22 and the mossy 500 and have a sp101 in .357 while I'm still seeking a good used .357 lever rifle. I know that's more than you asked about, but I have more hands to fill than just my own. I have...ummm, had, a few others too but this is basically the "goto" bug out setup. If bugging in I like to have more options.

 

[6mm Shoot]

You have a good hand gun and battle rifle. I would go for a 22 then a shotgun. When things get better for you I think if it was me I would get a good bolt rifle. That is just me though. I think the bolt rifle is more important than the battle rifle. You never know when you might have to make a long shot.

 

[CountryBoy19]

Stay with a rifle over a shotgun if you have to choose one over the other. You can fire multiple shots but you cannot milk extra range out of a shotgun sufficient to compete with hostile rifles.

This^^^

Also applies to .22, IMHO. With good shot placement you can take down small game with high-powered rifles w/o damaging a lot of meat. However you can't go the other way and take down large game or long-range targets reliably with a .22.

While I certainly do recognize the value of a .22 in an arsenal, I don't believe that given only 2 guns with one already being set as a handgun, that a person should choose a .22 rifle for the very reason listed above, and for self-defense reasons.

If I ever get to "choose" what type of self-defense scenario I'm in, it certainly won't be close up. I will choose the long-range engagement where I can put well-aimed shots on target and not have to worry about my position being overtaken quickly. I'm also a lot better at precise, long-range shooting than snap shooting at close-range. The only reason I carry a handgun is because it attracts a lot of attention to carry a rifle and it's a bit awkward sometimes. And I live by the motto that the only good use for a handgun is to fight your way back to the rifle that you should have had in the first place. All of this applies to a .22 as well. While it is capable of self-defense, it isn't ideal, nor does it surpass a good handgun.

Do you see what I'm getting at?

From the self-defense standpoint you need 2 guns at a minimum. #1 a handgun that you will have everywhere you go and #2 a longer-range weapon that can quickly put down large targets

From a survival hunting standpoint you need a variety of guns depending on what you plan to hunt. #1 You may need a shotgun for birds, however you're not going to suffice on birds alone and the shotgun is not in the above equation. #2 A .22 would be nice for small game but once again, you're not going to suffice on small game alone and it's not in the above equation. #3 A high-powered rifle is a must for large game and maybe even defense against large game. A high-powered rifle is in the above equation and can definitely be used as a substitute for #2 here (hunting small game).

Thats just the reasoning I've gone through to decide that my ultimate survival gun if I were to be limited to only 1 gun, is a high-powered rifle that is very accurate.