Self Defense in a Riot like situation or protest

[indyguy333]

Nowadays, if they aren't armed and you shoot, you're really at the mercy of the justice system. I could see either scenario ending up with you being charged with manslaughter. Now, if they were armed -- different story.

Not saying I agree with it, just the way it is.

 

[KittySlayer]

There are cameras everywhere and the standard will be what a jury of your peers(?) perceives.

#1. Hoodlums will likely shoot back. Bang you're dead.

#2. I can't conceal my hundred round magazine. What is your plan when you are out of ammo?

Situational awareness, sometimes skipping an event is the better life decision.

 

[Cool Breeze]

My opinion invites correction.

Best case: Have the foresight to anticipate confrontation and avoid the event. (Though I also don't want fear to direct my decisions)

Next best: Situational awareness is paramount from the event to the car. Know you're surroundings, don't be obnoxious or draw attention, don't take a sign with you thats going to end up in the trash the next week, walk briskly and intentionally. Cross streets way in advance of the crowd.

Next: If singled out and provoked, have your phone out on speakerphone with 911 on the line, run, push the panic button on your keyfob.

Lastly: If attacked, and have fear of life or serious injury, while backing up, draw handgun. My attitude is never to provoke with words or actions (like showing my firearm) therefore I would only draw my handgun with the intent to immediately fire it, and I would only fire it with the intent to stop the threat. That said, I hope I have the mindset to only draw because I must fire it.

 

[GIJEW]

Plan A: Why do you have to go out the front door through the crowd? Is there another exit where you can make a large circle around the mob? Seems like big venues have many exits.
Plan B: Somebody else asked why do you have to leave right away?

Plan C: Shooting. I'm thinking that if you're being threatened by a group of thugs they will be too close to allow for a discussion of the situation.

Regarding concerns about shooting unarmed assailants, get a good lawyer. With "disparity of force" it shouldn't matter that the group of assailants are armed only with fists and boots. Of course, depending on the location (ie Biloxi vs Seattle) "your mileage WILL vary".

As for facing a large mob, IMO being willing to shoot might mean more than how much ammo you have--the question not being "does he have enough ammo for all of us but just "who's next?"

 

[Maximinus Thrax]

*snip*


Situation #1:
You have excited an event and are simply wanting to proceed from the event to your car that is several blocks away in a parking garage. Your entire route is through many a protestor acting quite belligerent albeit not posing any real aggression, other than they continue to follow you (group of 6-8 hoodlums) using foul language. As you enter the parking garage their taunts increase as does their level of aggressiveness beginning with them snatching your hat and perhaps even ripping a sign from your hands, at this point you find yourself surrounded by 6-8 hoodlums and are pushed to the ground. <go>

Situation #2
Much like the above situation you are leaving an event towards your vehicle that is several blocks away. This time the crowd is a lot more "charged" than the above mentioned crowd and they en-mass follow you (100+ folks) most of whom are just whooping and hollering and yelling out taunts, but with several of the front line protesters getting a bit physical with hard shoulder bumps, maybe an egg or having water sprayed on you. You eventually find yourself cornered between a building that you cannot gain entrance to and a crowd of 100+ if not more folks that have forced you into a tiny alcove. The taunts are going up, someone has thrown an egg, and let's for amusement sake say you have your 13 year old daughter with you who wanted to attend her first political event. <go>

#1
My opinion that situation #1 is totally justified after finally being pushed down to go to guns with such a huge disparity of force. I don't know that I would come up blazing away, I think I would hope that its presence was enough to make the fools scatter, but at that point I think I'm justified to bring out a weapon.

#2
This one has me perplexed... the crowd because it is so large has you entrapped, but only the front line are actually getting aggressive. Part of me wants to say that if you (the crowd) decide to act like an idiot and swarm a person, then you might get what's coming to you and that has me thinking that especially if a physical touch occurs and especially with child beside me I may bring a weapon out. But I can't imagine firing into a crowd, that being said the first time my child is hit, or I am shoved to the ground, then all bets are off and I hope hollow-points don't over penetrate.

That being said, what are your opinions on what you might do, and the legal ramifications of doing it?
l

These scenarios betray a couple of facts:
1: if we find ourselves in this situation we have either A) not paid attention to our surroundings or B)not planned properly in advance of what is likely to be an emotionally charged event. Both mistakes landed our would-be victim in this spot.
2: We have somehow managed to draw attention to ourselves in an emotionally charged event. This is obviously unnecessary, especially when considering children being present.

Prior to these situations: I would choose to remain in whatever venue I was in. It's not worth the risk just to get home a little sooner. If you have obligations, cancel them. They're not worth your life or well-being.

If I have decided to press forward anyway or perhaps I run into a crowd protesting a separate event then things change. You can hear a crowd of that size and activity level so really that shouldn't happen but if it does, don't single yourself out.

1) Call the police before the group gets close and give them your location. Make it known that you have the police on the phone. At this point, you have changed the dynamic and we hope it is enough to disperse the group. If not, and you are in fact pushed to the ground, this is a physical attack putting you in a compromising position made by a numerically superior group. I believe it is reasonable to assume more violent intentions at this point. I see no reason to not respond with force and let the cards fall where they will. Hopefully, you are skilled enough to survive. Having the police on the phone will back up your story with the recorded audio.

2) Do not corner yourself if at all possible. Call the police and make it known you have them on the line. Put them on speaker if it will help get your point across. With a crowd that big, a firearm is a very bad idea but if the crowd gets physical...that's a tough call to make.

 

[TangoSierraEcho]

I agree with many here that avoidance is key. Situational awareness is critical to survival so if you were not aware that a crowd was massing outside your event of choice you made a mistake that could cost you. Once aware of what is happening and you willingly chose to tempt fate by wading into that crowd then I suspect people will get hurt or killed and you will go to prison or some combination. What I don't like about either scenario is it puts you in the mess willingly in other words you knew going in that bad things could happen, escape and evade don't seem to be what you are looking for but rather a reason or justification for deadly force unfortunately in either case, faced with unarmed folks hurting or trying to hurt you, you are rolling the dice on whether you will be in prison for the rest of your life, never know which way a jury will lean. Best advice in either scenario is be aware of what is happening around you and avoid it all together even if that means waiting a few hours to allow a path to clear.

 

[Excalibur]

The title should be changed. If it's a riot, it is no longer a protest or a "demonstration"

 

[Hoosier Cowboy]

Like the OP stated we now live in a country where violent or potentially violent riots are the daily norm. With that said it all goes back to rule #1, situational awareness. If your going downtown or to an area or event where you know there is a high chance of these so called protests then avoid the event or area all together in the first place. Know the area and be aware of any potential marches/protests/riots in advance if at all possible.

 

[Slonsteady]

You have pratciced drawing your weapon on your back or side, right? You can hit your target and not your leg, right? It is difficult, practice with an airsoft before switching to a real weapon. I would present baton first and let the thugs know right away, go for the bad a$$ with the big mouth boy or girl and put em on the ground before drawing leathal.

In lovely Indy one night, I shifted my wife between me and two no goods and went defensive and maneuverd for a business door. She never knew what was going on until we were inside. They did and didn't pursue. Be a hunter.