Should we eliminate the electoral college??

[jamil]

Direct democracy is the classic two wolves and one sheep deciding what's for dinner.

As was pointed out in the other thread on this topic, a popular vote for president would not make us a direct democracy.

Nevertheless, I guess I'll repeat what else I said in that thread. I believe witht the growing number of "superstates", the electoral college is becoming incapable of protecting the more rural states from urban policies.

 

[Leadeye]

Saw on the news this morning that the recount drive in Pennsylvania is running out of gas, looks like whoever was paying the bills is losing interest.

Always follow the money

 

[Cameramonkey]

Saw on the news this morning that the recount drive in Pennsylvania is running out of gas, looks like whoever was paying the bills is losing interest.

Always follow the money

I thought that was already a dead horse because she didnt even start her drive until several days after the deadline had passed in PA?

Sounds like a face saving headline to me. The old "you cant have that." "Well, I didnt want your stupid old ________ anyway. Harrumph!"

 

[oldpink]

Who crapped in your lunch bucket?

More like who put lunch in his crap bucket.
It says a lot that the wise words of Ben Franklin are now derisively described as a "trope," though.

 

[2A_Tom]

As was pointed out in the other thread on this topic, a popular vote for president would not make us a direct democracy.

Nevertheless, I guess I'll repeat what else I said in that thread. I believe with the growing number of "superstates", the electoral college is becoming incapable of protecting the more rural states from urban policies.

I Believe you are right, I am glad that it worked this time.

 

[traderdan]

First - good to see you back around here, my friend. I hope all is well for you.

While I am no fan of the folks that use the social safety net as a hammock - I don't believe that we should take away the right to vote. There are truly needy folks that can be taken care of. I personally would prefer to see those needs taken care of privately, as I suspect you would.

Thanks...We moved way out in the woods...and do not spend much time online. Good to hear from you! I ask this question because I am a bit uninformed...and I personally believe that there will be a big push to do away with the electoral college. There have been short periods in my life that I have relied somewhat on social services to help with medical bills. I am not unsympathetic to those who have needs...I believe we dodged a big bullet, this election cycle, and I hope that Mr Trump does well. I believe that the Democrats made a big mistake in running Hillary, and also believe that eventually the political pendulum will swing back the other way...A younger, smoother Bernie type might be hard to defeat, (young people were really excited about him)...and many, many people that I know (Trump supporters) were speaking in favor of a popular vote before December 8th.

 

[JS1911]

Absolutely not. Our Founders were the smartestmen of their era. And the losers who are whining about the EC don't have enough intelligence collectively to rival ONE Madison, or Franklin, or Adams, or Jefferson, etc. The Founders rightly feared a direct democracy. I hope that there isn't anyone on this board stupid enough to think that having California and New York control EVERY future election is a good thing.

 

[Jludo]

Absolutely not. Our Founders were the smartestmen of their era. And the losers who are whining about the EC don't have enough intelligence collectively to rival ONE Madison, or Franklin, or Adams, or Jefferson, etc. The Founders rightly feared a direct democracy. I hope that there isn't anyone on this board stupid enough to think that having California and New York control EVERY future election is a good thing.

It's far more complex and nuanced than you've laid it out.
The founders didn't want a demagogue, I'm not an historian but I image the founders would not think highly of Trump winning the election (this is not to imply they'd like Hillary)

 

[2A_Tom]

Pejoratives aside he is the president elect. As a business man I believe he has many rational ideas and plans. We should adopt a positive wait and see attitude, to act as if you can see the future or the heart of a man is quite irrational.

 

[oldpink]

It's far more complex and nuanced than you've laid it out.
The founders didn't want a demagogue, I'm not an historian but I image the founders would not think highly of Trump winning the election (this is not to imply they'd like Hillary)

This from a guy who scoffs at one of the Founders' own words?

 

[Jludo]

Pejoratives aside he is the president elect. As a business man I believe he has many rational ideas and plans. We should adopt a positive wait and see attitude, to act as if you can see the future or the heart of a man is quite irrational.

I've read some of the thinkers of that era. And you're right you can't see the future or the heart of a man. You can however compare their writings, statements, philosophies. I don't think it's out of line to state the founders and Trump weren't similar in most respects.

 

[Ericpwp]

I think they envisioned him though and were like "We got this."

 

[Nicr1991]

Absolutely not. The electoral college is essential in keeping a balanced representation of the country and making sure that a just the coasts determine our next president. It gives less populated states somewhat of a chance to have their voices heard. If we didn't have the electoral college then it would be mob rule and the majority would always vote in their own self interest and about half of the country would be screwed... Prager University has a really good video on why we need to keep the electoral college.

 

[2A_Tom]

I've read some of the thinkers of that era. And you're right you can't see the future or the heart of a man. You can however compare their writings, statements, philosophies. I don't think it's out of line to state the founders and Trump weren't similar in most respects.

He was never President, but I think that Sam Adams was quite a bit like Trump

 

[jamil]

He was never President, but I think that Sam Adams was quite a bit like Trump

Um. No. You can't have it both ways. Either Trump is good at business or he isn't. Samuel Adams wasn't. There are many more dissimilarities than similarities.

 

[cosermann]

Rhetorical question: Should we eliminate the Senate?

I mean, you know, we'd still have the House. Why bother with the Senate?

 

[KLB]

Thanks...We moved way out in the woods...and do not spend much time online. Good to hear from you! I ask this question because I am a bit uninformed...and I personally believe that there will be a big push to do away with the electoral college. There have been short periods in my life that I have relied somewhat on social services to help with medical bills. I am not unsympathetic to those who have needs...I believe we dodged a big bullet, this election cycle, and I hope that Mr Trump does well. I believe that the Democrats made a big mistake in running Hillary, and also believe that eventually the political pendulum will swing back the other way...A younger, smoother Bernie type might be hard to defeat, (young people were really excited about him)...and many, many people that I know (Trump supporters) were speaking in favor of a popular vote before December 8th.

It will have to be a REALLY big push. It would take a Constitutional Amendment to get rid of it. That is not an easy thing to pass.

ThisNation.com--Amending the Constitution

 

[chipbennett]

But for sake of argument; What if we required legal ID in all state. What if reliance on the social services would eliminate voters?

Those matters are non sequiturs. The Electoral College exists because our nation is a constitutional republic of sovereign states.

 

[chipbennett]

As was pointed out in the other thread on this topic, a popular vote for president would not make us a direct democracy.

Has anyone actually claimed that we are a Republic *because* of the Electoral College? I believe you have cause and effect reversed: we have the Electoral College because we are a Republic.

 

[jamil]

Has anyone actually claimed that we are a Republic *because* of the Electoral College? I believe you have cause and effect reversed: we have the Electoral College because we are a Republic.

Actually yes. I've come across people making the form of argument, "we are a republic, therefore we must keep the EC." But that's nonsense because the EC isn't what makes us a republic. All else staying the same, we'd still be a republic without it. My objection is justifying the EC in such wording that it implies we would somehow cease to be a Republic if we got rid of the EC and elected a president by popular vote.