Silly 12 ga stopping power discussion?

[iChokePeople]

you get a huge knock-down effect

 

[92ThoStro]

Why are people talking about 100 yd shots? With handguns and shotguns?
The OP is saying that animals can run 100 yards after being shot. He wasn't saying is the 12 gauge an effective stopper at 100 yards.

I will translate the OP

Is a 12 Gauge really considered "good" for stopping power?
Because you can shoot a deer, and it can RUN 100 yards after being shot.
The OP then said, imagine if that deer was a criminal, and he wanted to harm you.
If a deer can run 100 yards after taking a 12 gauge shot ( probably a slug? ), then wouldn't it be possible for a criminal to shoot you or harm you, after you shoot him?
Thus making the 12 gauge a poor stopper?

I think it is a silly question. Most people are going to drop after being hit with a slug. I'm sure there are stories of people getting shot and continuing on, there was a post up above where the little girl survived, but she SURVIVED, she did not run around after being hit. I imagine she was rushed to the hospital, probably by a helicopter. And handguns have less stopping power. ( Thus why the OP said the 12 gauge could be a medium stopper, and handguns are low "poor" stoppers )

So yes, the 12 gauge is a poor stopper, if you are comparing it to a bazooka, or a 50BMG or something. Which is kind of what the OP said at the end, he knew he was asking a crazy question.

I think the 12 gauge has excellent stopping power compared to handguns, and .223/5.56 semi auto rifles.

 

[Manatee]

55 gr .223 at 3200 fps = 176,000
230 gr 45ACP at 900 fps = 207,000
1 oz shotgun slug @ 1250 fps = 546,875

Math, it's what for dinner.

 

[chezuki]

55 gr .223 at 3200 fps = 176,000
230 gr 45ACP at 900 fps = 207,000
1 oz shotgun slug @ 1250 fps = 546,875

Math, it's what for dinner.

9 pellets of 00 buck @ 1325 fps = 715,500!


Sidebar: My car @ 51 fps = 827,883,000.

 

[WldBill423]

I prefer science to postulation.

Terminal Ballistics

 

[infiremedic07]

Animals versus humans , NO contest .

Show me any criminal that has ever chewed off a limb to escape being trapped and I'll buy into your argument .

There was that one guy that cut his hand off with a pocket knife to get unstuck from the boulder.

 

[Mike H]

I might be wrong here but won't a 12 ga. slug take about anything on the planet with proper bullet [slug] placement? At least I was under that impression.

 

[iChokePeople]

There was that one guy that cut his hand off with a pocket knife to get unstuck from the boulder.

Not that it's really part of this discussion, but there was also a guy in... Wisconsin, maybe? Would have been in the early 90s, based on when I cut it out and pinned it on my bulletin board as an example of HTFU. He was out cutting wood and had a tree or large limb fall on his leg, was pinned, was going to die, so he cut off his own leg with a pocket knife, dragged himself back to his tractor, drove himself to help, as I recall. I'll try to find it on the interwebz and add a linky.

 

[Vic_Mackey]

Stopping power aside, my hd shotgun has 6 shots in it, the last one being a super x slug. If I ever need to use it, most likely two or three will be expended. The slug is for last ditch in the event the wall of lead created by 3" nitro mag pellets don't stop or scare off the dumb bastard that chooses my house.

I could tell you some stories about the effectiveness of a Mossberg 500 in combat, but they aren't appropriate for public forums. However, I can vouch for Mossberg and will always own a 500.

Here's a young Vic_Mackey with his mighty Mossy in Iraq. WARNING: GEAR PORN!

 

[Leo]

No ballistics table reference here, but real life people. I personally know 2 men walking around Lafayette who tried to commit suicide with a 9mm. One was able to fire three shots, losing an eye, but both are on their feet actually working. I know 6 'nam vets who made it home with AK rounds in them, granted, I have no way to know the distance the bullet traveled before they were hit. The worst I ever saw was when I was called in as a chaplain for a family where a man had used a 12 gauge to his head. His face was hanging on skin and the back of his head was gone. The brain stem was off of the spinal cord. He was gone instantly. No amount of training can prepare someone for that, maybe a battlefield medic.

 

[Small's]

If a crack head was running at me full steam ahead and i had a choice to pick which weapon i was going to use it would be a 12 guage. if its buck 00 buck or a slug going at that person then im not worried about them hurting me unless they are close enough to fall on me. You can youtube downrangetv Terminal ballistics testing "3 videos" with Michael Bain and watch the differences between 380, 40, 45, 357, 223, 308 and 12 guage and you will see why i would pick the 12 guage.

 

[Slawburger]

Animals versus humans , NO contest .

Show me any criminal that has ever chewed off a limb to escape being trapped and I'll buy into your argument .

Here you go. Man was trapped and shot his finger off to get away.

PITTSBURGH: Cops: Pa. guard shot finger trying to remove ring | Nation | Macon.com

 

[augdog]

55 gr .223 at 3200 fps = 176,000
230 gr 45ACP at 900 fps = 207,000
1 oz shotgun slug @ 1250 fps = 546,875

Math, it's what for dinner.

Looks like Manattee has answered the question !!

 

[Small's]

What about the guy from "127 hours" who sawed off part of his arm with a knife or a leatherman after falling in a canyon in Utah and getting his arm stuck

 

[chezuki]

And then there's this guy...
Pinned Climber Cuts Off Arm to Get Free - NYTimes.com

There was that one guy that cut his hand off with a pocket knife to get unstuck from the boulder.

What about the guy from "127 hours" who sawed off part of his arm with a knife or a leatherman after falling in a canyon in Utah and getting his arm stuck

I think it's been mentioned.

 

[EvilBlackGun]

That back-packer out west ...

... who O, never mind. Point made very well.

 

[junior438]

there aint an argument on this matter, as long as you dont get shot in the hands, itl stop anyone. personally i dont want to prove my point. just have to take my word on it.

 

[LarryC]

Op from the way you phrased the question I believe you were referring to using a 12 gage for defense against a BG. Couple issues that are a little different when shooting a man or an animal. First is that unless the BG is insane, and has been shot with a 12 gage, and is able - you are correct - he will run --- AWAY, cause he knows you probably have more shells in your firearm.

Whilst a Tiger or Rhino may continue to attack. I really believe 99.999999% of the time a man would either be incapacitated, dead or going as fast as he is able to the farthest point where you and your shotgun aren't! The second issue is that if I shoot a BG (or a vicious animal), I am not going to see what the first shot did, until I run out of ammo - or are completely convinced the BG is well done.

I guess unless someone wants to loan me a MA Duece (with a good supply of ammo), I would be happy to confront any BG with my 45 or a 12 Gage, even knowing they are not always 100% effective at stopping everything with 1 shot!

Sometimes you just gotta play the odds.

There is only one guarantee in this life - that it ends in death!

 

[clelaj]

Or maybe the OP was just making fun about statisticians who skew data to come up with the answer they want. Kind of like Al Gore and global warming.

 

[Hookeye]

Running 100 yards............. uh, that's why you don't shoot deer behind the shoulder