Snap Caps

[Roadie]

Dry-fire safety - Hand Guns

Oh, and here is a whole article on dry fire by Ayoob:

Dry-fire safety - Hand Guns | Guns Magazine | Find Articles at BNET

 

[Roadie]

Let's see...

The Modern Technique of the Pistol (Hardcover)

by Gregory B. Morrison, Jeff Cooper

"Dry-practice in the home is a worthwhile habit and it will result in more deeply programmed reflexes. Most of the reflexes involved in the Modern Technique do not require that a shot be fired. Particular procedures for dry-firing in the home will be covered later. Let it suffice for now that you do not dry-fire using a "target" that you wish not to see destroyed. (Recall RULE I as well.)"

 

[g00n24]

It's practicing playing around.

It's practicing poor and dangerous gun handling.

It's not practicing shooting.

You want to ask the same question two or three other ways to see if the answer changes? That's what my kids did until they were about 6-7 and I figured that was about enough of playing dumb to try to get their way on something they didn't like the answer.

So i guess then you never take down and clean your firearms? I mean how could you? that would be unsafe handling of a weapon that is always loaded at all times even when you check and re-check and re-check that it is not loaded it is still loaded. Therefore, the only time you would ever handle a firearm would be to shoot it at something you are willing to destroy, it would never be to take it apart and clean it. That's just way too unsafe.

 

[henktermaat]

Guys, Guys. you just have to get to know Jack - you see, he's special. He's like the ultra INGO Libertarian mascot. He's gotta take a side against everyone else where possible. It's how he remains HARDCORE. You think you're all pro gun? Well Jack is WAY MORE PRO-GUN than YOU and you SUCK by comparison!!! You're all just MESSING AROUND and he's the only one who is SERIOUS around here!!!



Jack, Jack. I kid, I kid. I kid because I love. Give me a hug, man.

 

[Indy317]

No it's not. It's not even close.

Make what ever excuse you want, play all the games you want, you are cocking the hammer, pulling the trigger, and hoping it doesn't go off.

Dry firing is practice. It is a good way to practice trigger control and sight picture. "Hoping it doesn't go off?" I believe in physics, not magic. When I remove a magazine, or empty it of bullets, and rack the slide and physically see and feel that there are no bullets in the gun, I don't hope it doesn't go off, I _know_ it won't go off. Basic physics.

Every excuse for playing around with guns in this thread involves "you can't get to the range" or some other reason YOU ARE NOT SHOOTING but you still want to pull the trigger.

That's called playing. Go to the range and point it at something you don't mind killing, destroying, putting a hole in, and you are not playing, you are practicing.

No, it is not playing. #1, it is testing the weapon. Had it not been for my "playing," I would have never known my striker on my junk S&W Sigma was as weak as it was. Thank God it broke during my "playing," and not during a firefight. There is absolutely no guarantee that the striker would have broke during live fire practice. It could have snapped at anytime. A co-worker had the same issue. At some point, his striker broke. It wasn't until a friend came over and wanted to see what the trigger pull was like that they discovered the issue. The scary thing is that it is not known how many months his striker was like that. The last range was months prior to this.

There's no such thing as an unloaded gun. Period.[/quotes]

Physics would say otherwise. That is like saying guns do kill people. Either guns kill people, or other people using guns kill people. The laws of physics say people kill people, as guns are machines that don't work without some sort of force. If a gun is unloaded, it is unloaded..period. The negligent acts that happen with guns happen with loaded guns. I have near heard of an unloaded gun firing a round. That would be impossible as being unloaded means no bullets in the gun.

It's true or it's not. It's not one way one day and the other when it's inconvenient for you because you want to play around with your guns someplace where you couldn't or wouldn't shoot them but your childish urges too much for you to control and you must get out your toys like snap caps, guns and other things you are not mature enough to really be trusted with.

 

[Roadie]

Dry firing is practice. It is a good way to practice trigger control and sight picture. "Hoping it doesn't go off?" I believe in physics, not magic. When I remove a magazine, or empty it of bullets, and rack the slide and physically see and feel that there are no bullets in the gun, I don't hope it doesn't go off, I _know_ it won't go off. Basic physics.



No, it is not playing. #1, it is testing the weapon. Had it not been for my "playing," I would have never known my striker on my junk S&W Sigma was as weak as it was. Thank God it broke during my "playing," and not during a firefight. There is absolutely no guarantee that the striker would have broke during live fire practice. It could have snapped at anytime. A co-worker had the same issue. At some point, his striker broke. It wasn't until a friend came over and wanted to see what the trigger pull was like that they discovered the issue. The scary thing is that it is not known how many months his striker was like that. The last range was months prior to this.

Physics would say otherwise. That is like saying guns do kill people. Either guns kill people, or other people using guns kill people. The laws of physics say people kill people, as guns are machines that don't work without some sort of force. If a gun is unloaded, it is unloaded..period. The negligent acts that happen with guns happen with loaded guns. I have near heard of an unloaded gun firing a round. That would be impossible as being unloaded means no bullets in the gun.

Great post! Could not agree more.

You still follow the rules when dry fire/practicing with snap caps. You aren't waving it around like a madman.

The snap caps also provide a level of safety as well (adding to your physics analogy) they fill the space occupied by live rounds, but are still treated as such.

Penny drills, holster draw practice, familiarizing yourself with a new gun and control placement. That is where I am, I have a new handgun. I do not have access to ranges that allow me to do holster drills, so what am I supposed to do to practice if I want to learn my weapon? NOT practice??

Where are all our resident Instructors when we need them? lol

 

[Jack Ryan]

Well Jack, that is because you are WRONG. Must firearms instructors encourage dry fire practice. For example:



So let's see, we can follow "most experts" like Massad Ayoob, or, and anonymous internet poster, Jack Ryan.

Who would you trust?

That's an easy one, like most people you'll do what ever you wanted to do to start with and then search for things on the internet that told you it's a just dandy idea, so you and Massad get out your mirrors, snap caps, and guns and turn on Gun Smoke and have at it. Read about it in the papers at least once a week.

The big difference between my opinion and yours is no one was ever killed following my advice.

 

[henktermaat]

That's an easy one, like most people you'll do what ever you wanted to do to start with and then search for things on the internet that told you it's a just dandy idea, so you and Massad get out your mirrors, snap caps, and guns and turn on Gun Smoke and have at it.

The big difference between my opinion and yours is no one was ever killed following my advice.

Jack, you never dissapoint

 

[Jack Ryan]

Jack, you never dissapoint

Thanks, I have psychic powers to predict the future too. Check out post #20 in this thread,
https://www.indianagunowners.com/fo...ate_col_jeff_cooper_shooter_trainer_hero.html

Want to know what these guys will say to the cops after they shoot the neighbor in the next apartment over?

"Duh, golly gee officer, I dunno wut happen. It just went off, ah wuss'n play'n wiff it! sniff sniff sniff, I am sooooo sorry."

Geraldo with film at 11, blah blah blan... another ignorant hillbilly in a Mars Hill apartment complex shot a neighbor... gun show loop hole... should he really have a permit to...

 

[henktermaat]

Thanks, I have psychic powers to predict the future too. Check out post #20 in this thread,
https://www.indianagunowners.com/fo...ate_col_jeff_cooper_shooter_trainer_hero.html

Want to know what these guys will say to the cops after they shoot the neighbor in the next apartment over?

"Duh, golly gee officer, I dunno wut happen. It just went off, ah wuss'n play'n wiff it! sniff sniff sniff, I am sooooo sorry."

Geraldo with film at 11, blah blah blan... another ignorant hillbilly in a Mars Hill apartment complex shot a neighbor... gun show loop hole... should he really have a permit to...

Again- you are always one step ahead!

A true internet hero, in my book

 

[g00n24]

That's an easy one, like most people you'll do what ever you wanted to do to start with and then search for things on the internet that told you it's a just dandy idea, so you and Massad get out your mirrors, snap caps, and guns and turn on Gun Smoke and have at it. Read about it in the papers at least once a week.

The big difference between my opinion and yours is no one was ever killed following my advice.

So Jack, like I asked before...You dont ever clean your firearms and break them down? If you can't ever hold an unloaded firearm, you will never be able to service your weapons. So do you just get rid of your guns, and buy a replacement when they are too dirty and start malfunctioning on you?

 

[Roadie]

That's an easy one, like most people you'll do what ever you wanted to do to start with and then search for things on the internet that told you it's a just dandy idea, so you and Massad get out your mirrors, snap caps, and guns and turn on Gun Smoke and have at it. Read about it in the papers at least once a week.

The big difference between my opinion and yours is no one was ever killed following my advice.

Another big difference between our opinions is that I have facts and quotes from EXPERTS to back mine up. All you have is you contention that you are right.

Anyone else notice that Jack conveniently left out the fact that Jeff Cooper, the very person he used as a reason NOT to dry fire, supports dry fire drills? lol

So again, do I take the word of an internet bully, or gun instructors and experts with years of experience?

Sorry, but you don't know "Jack" compared to the likes of Jeff Cooper and Massad Ayoob.

 

[cosermann]

Are snap caps necessary for the Glock 19?

LLDJR, no snap caps are not necessary for the Glock in terms of protecting the mechanism from damage, but as some have pointed out, snap caps can be used in some interesting ways for practice.

If all you're looking for is something to improve the safety of dry-fire practice, a product to consider would be a safety barrel like those from Blade-Tech.

Blade-Tech Training Barrel Glock 19, 23 Kydex Yellow - MidwayUSA

 

[jd3772000]

What a deep discussion on snap caps...

I use them to practice my sighting and trigger controll while sitting or standing in front of a target at home. I have done this numerous times and it pays to do it cause every time I go shoot at the range I can see I am better every time.

 

[Jack Ryan]

So Jack, like I asked before...You dont ever clean your firearms and break them down? If you can't ever hold an unloaded firearm, you will never be able to service your weapons. So do you just get rid of your guns, and buy a replacement when they are too dirty and start malfunctioning on you?

See rule number 8.

 

[Jack Ryan]

Another big difference between our opinions is that I have facts and quotes from EXPERTS to back mine up. All you have is you contention that you are right.

It's not a contention it's a fact.

No one EVER killed someone else or their self unintentionally following MY advice.

 

[Jack Ryan]

Would you tell someone in martial arts not to practice their katas without fighting someone, because if they aren't fighting, they are just playing? same concept.

In my best Paul Harvey voice, "and now the rest of the story..." The part you guys who want to play around with guns at home because, a. ammunition is expense, b. it's too far to the range, c. what you want to do is so dangerous they won't even let you do it at the range you frequent, d. it's what you want to do any way so you searched the internet until you found some on you could some how construe their comment as saying it's just dandy for you to play games at home with your gun like a little kid snapping a cap gun at the Lone Ranger...

Tactical-Life.com Dry Firing Makes Survival Sense

Dry Fire Basics
The first rule of dry fire is to make your weapon safe, and remove any and all ammunition from your practice area. Verify that the weapon is empty again. Observe all rules of safety. Never dry fire the weapon at anything you don’t want to destroy. All guns are to be treated as loaded – ALWAYS. Have a backstop – ALWAYS. Don’t think it can’t happen to you.

If you want to take your weapon and your snap caps to a range where you would fire your weapon normally, then you have my full support and I fully endorse their use there just as I would any other use of a weapon.

No one in this thread or any other I've ever read on this forum has EVER suggested they wanted snap caps, or were dry firing while pointing their weapon down range.

A few have come back after about this many pages of whining how they were perfectly safe and I'm a big bully spoiling all their fun, and I'm so arrogant because I say the four simple rules are rules not suggestions, then they'll start all about how safe they are and they really meant they have an iron box at home or some other big line of baloney, like all the rest of the people would have said right up to the moment they pull the trigger and it goes bang instead of snap.

Go to a range. Point it at something you wouldn't mind SOME ONE ELSE SHOOTING and you are "practice" playing.

If you've never deliberately fired a weapon there on purpose you are just playing around like a child with a dangerous weapon because you THINK it's not going to go off.

Print up this thread and go tell all your neighbors your big plans and how safe you and Massood think it is. Suggest they all to the same while pointing at your house. I have no trouble at making the same suggestions to my neighbors that I make right here.

 

[cosermann]

"If a sportsman true you'd be
Listen carefully to me:
Never, never, let your gun
Pointed be at anyone..."

Wasn't that fun?

Gun safety - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[Indy317]

If you want to take your weapon and your snap caps to a range where you would fire your weapon normally, then you have my full support and I fully endorse their use there just as I would any other use of a weapon.

Yes...because gun ranges are magical places where negligent discharges _never_ happen.

3 hurt in gun range shooting | 10connects.com | Tampa, St. Petersburg, Clearwater

No injuries reported as Polk sheriff's gun discharges by accident | DesMoinesRegister.com | The Des Moines Register

1 Injured In Accidental Gun Discharge - News Story - WHIO Dayton

The laws of physics don't change at the gun range. Why you think things are safer there, I don't understand.

A few have come back after about this many pages of whining how they were perfectly safe and I'm a big bully spoiling all their fun, and I'm so arrogant because I say the four simple rules are rules not suggestions...

#1: No one is spoiling my fun. I dry fired my gun today a few time. Guess what, it was unloaded, so the laws of physics made it so that no projectiles were fired from the gun.

#2: Your arrogance comes from your snide little comments, not your discussion of rules. Maybe you need to call people names while talking about your rules to feel better about yourself. Your avatar pretty much shows what you likely think of many others: You are standing over someone who is in a submissive position.

If you've never deliberately fired a weapon there on purpose you are just playing around like a child with a dangerous weapon because you THINK it's not going to go off.

True or false: If a weapon is unloaded, and there are no bullets in the weapon, nor any bullets within 100 miles of the weapon, will any amount of dry firing cause the weapon to fire a bullet?

 

[VUPDblue]

That's enough...