So I might have to stop carrying to church...

[IBTL]

Frustatingly sad news,

There was a complaint about my carrying to church services. It seems that some people believe it's morally wrong for me to do so. Furthermore, they didn't confront me directly. They went to my church elder and complained to him.

Long story short, I was asked why I carried. I replied, "because I love my wife and will not permit a violent crime to come against her. It's not illegal nor is it sinful to protect yourself from criminals."

Of course, the elders were won over by logic and they personally had no objections to my carrying. But the fact remains that I have become a stumbling block for some. Then I replied, "what about me? Wouldn't they become a stumbling block for me and my family?" Again, they agreed with me that they had no less right to impose their beliefs upon me. Gun rights 2, and gun grabbers 0.

Finally, it was asked that if the situation got to the point that there was an uproar about my carrying, would I not carry in order to keep the peace. After a long thought, I answered, "yes; under one condition..."

"That my accusers personally come and ask me to deny my very right to defend my wife and loved ones from violence." Now, I don't know where all this was coming from. It was felt good to be able speak the truth without getting angry or being misunderstood. Frankly, I didn't think I would ever hear myself say those words.

So, that's my sad news folks. I guess I need to uber-discreet when I carry, so that I don't scare anybody at services. I won't be asked not to carry by my elders (who shouldn't have been bothered with the issue in the first place). Might be time to buy that Kel-tec P11...

 

[misconfig]

Just renounce the faith, that's what I'd do.

 

[garagegunmaker]

You should invite as many ingo members as you can to come to your church for one service and open carry. That should solve your problem.

 

[IBTL]

You should invite as many ingo members as you can to come to your church for one service and open carry. That should solve your problem.

HA! Well, if anybody lives in Lafayette and wants to come...

 

[bigus_D]

That does sound frustrating. I hate to ask, for fear of the dreaded OC v. CC debate, but were you OCing in church or was this a case of concealed <> concealed?

I'd agree that it is time to pick up that pocket carry.

Note: <> means "not equals"... != also means "not equals"... I know there are some tech types around here, but I'm not sure which sudo-code flies!

 

[youngda9]

Perhaps you should conceal a little better?

You could present scripture at the next elders meeting supporting your position. Present evidence of all the recent church shootings.

Ask about the church security team and what the plan is to protect the congregation.

Tell them that you value your life and that you will attend another church if it means being without the ability to protect yourself and the ones that you love(helps get your point across if you gave big $$ to the church in the past)

 

[lovemachine]

It sounds like nobody is going to win in this. If you continue to carry, they will still complain. Next thing you know they have a sign saying no firearms in the church. I think the smartest thing you can do is just to conceal so nobody will ever know you have it. Then everyone is happy. What they won't know won't hurt them. You can continue to carry. At least that's what I feel anyway.

 

[IndyMonkey]

Going to church is a popularity contest, you need more friends to speak on your behalf.

 

[garagegunmaker]

It sounds like nobody is going to win in this. If you continue to carry, they will still complain. Next thing you know they have a sign saying no firearms in the church. I think the smartest thing you can do is just to conceal so nobody will ever know you have it. Then everyone is happy. What they won't know won't hurt them. You can continue to carry. At least that's what I feel anyway.

 

[IBTL]

Perhaps you should conceal a little better?

You could prevent scripture at the next elders meeting supporting your position. Present evidence of all the recent church shootings.

Ask about the church security team and what the plan is to protect the congregation.

Tell them that you value your life and that you will attend another church if it means being without the ability to protect yourself and the ones that you love(helps get your point across if you gave big $$ to the church in the past)

Some valid questions here. Though I don't believe that OCing is wrong...well, let me just quote scripture.

"It maybe lawful, but it may not be profitable." 1 Cor. 10:23

For those who asked, I carry a Sig P226 and BLACKHAWK! holster with my shirt completely covering it.

My elders are all too familiar with the evidences of violence in church.

I don't plan to attend a different church, because I have a disagreement with some other members.

I don't think it's wise to use the whole donation thing as leverage. I believe that the money I have is truly not mine, but God's and to use it against anyone, let alone my church...

I don't want to turn this into a carry debate, as it is clear to me that I need some uber-deep concealment.

 

[IBTL]

It sounds like nobody is going to win in this. If you continue to carry, they will still complain. Next thing you know they have a sign saying no firearms in the church. I think the smartest thing you can do is just to conceal so nobody will ever know you have it. Then everyone is happy. What they won't know won't hurt them. You can continue to carry. At least that's what I feel anyway.

This is pretty much the same conclusion I've drawn. Thanks for reiterating it for me.

 

[ddenny5]

I would love to find a Bible cover with a second pocket that has a holster in it. However I have a large Bible cover that has a second pocket that I use to put my Colt Defender. They will never know. My pastor is a strong supporter of gun rights and he does carry. I would start educating members of your church about self defense especially during Sunday school when the subject calls for it.

 

[IBTL]

Yea,

I heard in the old days, the preacher would lay his pistol on the podium before his sermon. That would be something to see!!!

 

[singlestacksig]

Some valid questions here. Though I don't believe that OCing is wrong...well, let me just quote scripture.

"It maybe lawful, but it may not be profitable." 1 Cor. 10:23

For those who asked, I carry a Sig P226 and BLACKHAWK! holster with my shirt completely covering it.

My elders are all too familiar with the evidences of violence in church.

I don't plan to attend a different church, because I have a disagreement with some other members.

I don't think it's wise to use the whole donation thing as leverage. I believe that the money I have is truly not mine, but God's and to use it against anyone, let alone my church...

I don't want to turn this into a carry debate, as it is clear to me that I need some uber-deep concealment.

get a good IWB holster and CC while there.. I carry a Sig all the time around Lafayette & I am a skinny guy.. no one complains.. most don't know..

 

[flightsimmer]

Hi guys and girls;
I have no problem with open carry period, but a lot of misinformed people do. That's why I carry concealed and avoid the problems that OC can create. I think the Pastor at my church is the only one that knows for sure that I carry and that's because he gave me a friendly hug one Sunday and his eyes got real big when he did but he is OK with it, besides, I'm the Chairman of the Board of Directors at church and I've known quite a few Pastors, Priest, Rabis and the like that also carry. They just keep it under wraps. I don't care what enemys think about it but I don't like to make friends uncomfortable needlessly.

 

[Jack Ryan]

Perhaps you should conceal a little better?

You could prevent scripture at the next elders meeting supporting your position. Present evidence of all the recent church shootings.

Ask about the church security team and what the plan is to protect the congregation.

Tell them that you value your life and that you will attend another church if it means being without the ability to protect yourself and the ones that you love(helps get your point across if you gave big $$ to the church in the past)

Sounds like time to find a church in a better neighborhood.



Just for the record, I live in the church God built, EVERY day. He hasn't complained and He's the Boss with the big hammer. I don't bother much with the churches made by men or care much what the rest of the little boss wannabees think or want.

 

[jblomenberg16]

I think you are handling yourself well. Something that you are keenly aware of, and doing a good job avoiding, is that this can quickly become an issue larger than just carrying a gun.

It is up to you to make sure that it doesn't turn into "I give more than you, I'm involved in more church activities...etc."

At the end of the day, if it becomes a you vs. them situation, then there will be a loser. I think you need to continue to be objective, focusing on the legal and moral reasons that a person can and should be prepared to defend his family. If a person wants to challenge you personally about it, then so be it. But if they decide to challenge the church about it, it is my humble opinion that they are just using it to provide them a reason to speak about something even larger that they don't like about the church.

 

[Mike_Indy]

I would talk to the leadership, as you have. There are two sides to the discussion. The leadership needs to be supportive of the carry, if they tell you not to, and you do carry knowingly, you're likely adding to the chances of liability exposure if you have have to use it on the property.

The leadership also needs to consider, this is a slippery slope. One, the person(s) did not do as the Bible tells them. Your carrying may "offend" them as it says in Matthew. If so, they are to come to you, first, then the leadership if appropriate. As a deacon in my church, I would have said, go to your "brother" first. If they are not "comfortable doing that (perhaps a male/female issue), I could opt to assist them in the discussion. If they still refuse, their conviction must not be that strong. People can find any number of reasons to justify leaving a particular church/faith or to complain about. Good old human nature and free will.

From there, the leadership needs to establish a policy. Either allow it or don't. As a member of that church, I'd follow their leadership or choose to go elsewhere.

Like a school, there are many kids around. I rarely carry during services. Personal choice there. Any time we bring a gun into an environment means we are affecting it. Is the risk of attack worth the potential impact of me bringing a weapon into the environment.

 

[youngda9]

 

[youngda9]

Any time we bring a gun into an environment means we are affecting it.

The environment is affected any time we bring a gun into it? What do you mean by this?

I carry my gun all over the place and the environment isn't changed in the least....