Solar recommendations?

[yaquindn]

shibumiseeker does have a point about the harbour freight panels but you have to look at it this way too..... mono or poly crystal panels same wattage is about twice or more the cost....ok hail storm damages your panel even though the higher cost polycrystal is trashed and cost more to replace but the hf panels cost 45 dollars to replace the damaged panel

 

[shibumiseeker]

22 years of having solar panels, never had one smashed by hail.

 

[yaquindn]

with all the crazy weather we have been having lately your lucky just this year I saw tennis ball sized hail in the area with several times seeing quarter to dime size hail.

 

[japartridge]

You all do realize that you can make your own panels fairly easily, and poly cystalline cells are around $350 for a 1kW of A grade on eBay. If you can use a soldering iron, and do some basic woodworking, or metalworking you can make your own frames and then either use EVA or an epoxy based encapsulating medium.

As for the soldering, it is easy, even if you haven't done it before, it is easy and you get the hang of it quite quickly. I've done it, and I couldn't even solder a wire together before hand!

The only thing I'm going to need any additional assistance on is the wiring up of the GTI with backup to my house.

 

[remauto1187]

You all do realize that you can make your own panels fairly easily, and poly cystalline cells are around $350 for a 1kW of A grade on eBay. If you can use a soldering iron, and do some basic woodworking, or metalworking you can make your own frames and then either use EVA or an epoxy based encapsulating medium.

As for the soldering, it is easy, even if you haven't done it before, it is easy and you get the hang of it quite quickly. I've done it, and I couldn't even solder a wire together before hand!

The only thing I'm going to need any additional assistance on is the wiring up of the GTI with backup to my house.

Ive been trying to tell them.......

You do not have to use glass (tempered) for the face of your panels either. You can use acrylic/plexiglass that is UV resistant. Hail bounces right off. The stuff can be had just about anywhere...menards is the easiest source.
There are tutorials on youtube on how to do everything from layout, soldering and on and on. There are all kinds of sites that have the calculators for system side, size of battery bank needed, sizing your home power needs (converted backwords to size your solar/inverter size requirements) all the way to min. individual wire sizes needed for your specific system. ALL FREE INFO!

 

[CathyInBlue]

How much are sheets of gorilla glass to face a solar panel? That's the only way I'd make my own, is if I could face it with gorilla glass.

 

[shibumiseeker]

You all do realize that you can make your own panels fairly easily, and poly cystalline cells are around $350 for a 1kW of A grade on eBay. If you can use a soldering iron, and do some basic woodworking, or metalworking you can make your own frames and then either use EVA or an epoxy based encapsulating medium.

As for the soldering, it is easy, even if you haven't done it before, it is easy and you get the hang of it quite quickly. I've done it, and I couldn't even solder a wire together before hand!

I got my first job as a networks technician because I could solder. I've built hundreds of electronics projects.

I've looked into building my own panels and the economics simply don't add up for me. I bought cells and built a panel back when they were $5 a watt, and recently when I got the cells for $.40 a watt.

With quality solar running about $1.50 a watt carrying a 25 year warranty, and Chinese imports running as low as $.80 a watt, building my own panels aren't worth it.

For a kW worth of panels you start with the cells. Then you buy some type of glass/acrylic material and you're going to need about 8-9 square meters of the stuff running $50-90 a square meter. Then framing, and encapsulant. Then you are going to spend many, many hours constructing them. Once you get good it MAY take 3-4 hours per panel, and you're going to need to make a few to get into the rhythm of it. And you ARE going to break cells as you make them, as much as 10%. Those things are extremely fragile. Most people don't understand what it takes to make something that will be exposed to the elements and extreme daily thermal cycling and still work 25, 30, 50 years later. The first panel I built developed issues after 2 years. I ended up having to rebuild it after 5. The second panel I built needed solder joints troubleshot after only a few months (and I am VERY good at soldering, it's the mechanical stresses that are put on the joints that are an issue).

In the end you are going to end up with a panel that is probably not as good as the cheaper Chinese imports for about the same cost, and certainly not as good as the quality panels. For the hobbyist who wants the experience of making their own panel, I say Go For It! For the person who wants to power their home, time and money are better spent buying commercial.

 

[japartridge]

I got my first job as a networks technician because I could solder. I've built hundreds of electronics projects.

I've looked into building my own panels and the economics simply don't add up for me. I bought cells and built a panel back when they were $5 a watt, and recently when I got the cells for $.40 a watt.

With quality solar running about $1.50 a watt carrying a 25 year warranty, and Chinese imports running as low as $.80 a watt, building my own panels aren't worth it.

For a kW worth of panels you start with the cells. Then you buy some type of glass/acrylic material and you're going to need about 8-9 square meters of the stuff running $50-90 a square meter. Then framing, and encapsulant. Then you are going to spend many, many hours constructing them. Once you get good it MAY take 3-4 hours per panel, and you're going to need to make a few to get into the rhythm of it. And you ARE going to break cells as you make them, as much as 10%. Those things are extremely fragile. Most people don't understand what it takes to make something that will be exposed to the elements and extreme daily thermal cycling and still work 25, 30, 50 years later. The first panel I built developed issues after 2 years. I ended up having to rebuild it after 5. The second panel I built needed solder joints troubleshot after only a few months (and I am VERY good at soldering, it's the mechanical stresses that are put on the joints that are an issue).

In the end you are going to end up with a panel that is probably not as good as the cheaper Chinese imports for about the same cost, and certainly not as good as the quality panels. For the hobbyist who wants the experience of making their own panel, I say Go For It! For the person who wants to power their home, time and money are better spent buying commercial.

Where can I get the chinese imports for .80/watt??? I will jump all over that. I'd much rather not have to mess with encapsulating them myself, but most of what I saw was around $2/watt.

 

[shibumiseeker]

Where can I get the chinese imports for .80/watt??? I will jump all over that. I'd much rather not have to mess with encapsulating them myself, but most of what I saw was around $2/watt.

You have to buy more than 1 (usually a pallet) and they generally coincide with shipments coming in from China so it's not a regular thing. I get email notifications when deals like that come through, and the last one I saw was $.71/watt this summer but that's no longer available. $2/watt is high even for buying single panels. Right now Wholesale Solar has Astroenergy 240s for $1.01/watt by the pallet (20 panels) and $1.15 for single panels of that same brand/model.

The last time I bought panels last year I bought 800 watts and paid $1.60/watt shipped for Kyoceras.

 

[remauto1187]

How much are sheets of gorilla glass to face a solar panel? That's the only way I'd make my own, is if I could face it with gorilla glass.

Even though people have been using alternatives to glass for years...successfully. That makes no sense.

 

[shibumiseeker]

You have to buy more than 1 (usually a pallet) and they generally coincide with shipments coming in from China so it's not a regular thing. I get email notifications when deals like that come through, and the last one I saw was $.71/watt this summer but that's no longer available. $2/watt is high even for buying single panels. Right now Wholesale Solar has Astroenergy 240s for $1.01/watt by the pallet (20 panels) and $1.15 for single panels of that same brand/model.

The last time I bought panels last year I bought 800 watts and paid $1.60/watt shipped for Kyoceras.

A little thread revival: I just got an email notification from Sun Electronics for a large quantity of used panels for $.38/watt, and new panels starting at $.45/watt and up, but as I said above, it's catch as catch can so if you wait 6 months it may not be available, or it may be even cheaper.

Email quoted:

You've read my headlines when we receive new, even more incredible, prices every week. Well it just happened again, from one of the largest Mfr.'s in the world. They are all Grade A modules. So we need to get the ball rolling. Watch the web site this weekend or look at it in a couple of hours. The information may not be 100% complete but it's enough to give you a chance to grab one of these good deals on more solar panels.

Actually, our home page prices are about the best I have ever seen on price and/or quality anywhere. Other distributors and dealers are higher than us, Amazon, Google and eBay are generally very high compared to us, and the big box stores, like Lowe's and Home Depot are in La-La Land, charging 4 to 8 times what we charge ($4 to $8/W.)

The problem is how do we offer you these deals we get fast enough before it all gets sold. If we take too long sorting out every detail you would like to have, we all lose out. So we are giving it to you the best that we can. We can fill in the details over the phone such
as: exact inventory available or ETA of MW's, KW's, or pallets, number of modules on a pallet, etc., etc. Just call me or any of our Sales Engineers. If you can't get thru always call me next at my cell phones below

We have decided to list just the best of a list from around the world of no more than 20 or so of the best deals that we could find over the last 3 months.

We have about $5M in stock in Miami and Phoenix and more on the way. We have a large supply of small 12V modules (listed on our homepage.) They are all the lowest prices in the world, we believe!

Here it is:

$/W WATTS Module/ Mfr./Cert./ETA

89¢ 195 to 215W Sovello, Germany (Identical to Evergreen) in Miami

89¢ 225 to 235W SPI, U.S.A., UL, in Miami and N.Y.

89¢ 136 to 144W Uni-Solar, U.S.A., UL, in Miami

89¢ 235 to 280W Well Known Manufacturer, UL, 25 Year Warranty

75¢ 235 to 285W Suntech, Made in U.S.A., UL, in the U.S.A.

69¢ 210 to 220W Hanwha Solar One, Korea, UL

69¢ 170W Sun Electronics, Solar Laminates

49¢ 136-144W Unisolar Unfinished, Solar Laminates

49¢ 100-110W Sun Electronics, CIGS Thin Film Modules

45¢ 100 to 115W Bosch Solar, Germany, CE (For Int. Jobs Only), Miami
in 20 days

38¢ 190W Used Modules From Well Known Manufacturer


WORLD LOWEST PRICES

John Kimball
President/CEO
Sun Electronics
CELL PHONE: 305-710-9645
CELL PHONE: 786-521-3049
CELL PHONE: 305-335-2557

 

[shibumiseeker]

And I just got another email update from another source, 12v panels as low as $.86/watt, 24v panels as low as about $.58/watt in pallet quantities.

Sale ends the 29th of April.

Solar Panels, PV Systems and Inverters Distributor

 

[shibumiseeker]

And more thread revival because there seemed to be many folks doubting that sub-$1/watt panels were available readily, one of the periodic emails I get from my suppliers, this one from Solar Panels, Systems, Inverters | Residential & Commercial

Solar Panels 48¢/W
UL LISTING AVAILABLE
EXPORT ONLY
20 FT OR 40 FT CONTAINER
UNTIL SOLD.
YOU MAY MIX MODULES.

Model
Size (mm)
Amount
Power
Voltage
SUN-250
1650 x 990 x 40
28
250
24V
SUN-200
1310 x 990 x 40
18
200
12V
SUN-200
1480 x 990 x 50
87
200
12V
SUN-280
1956 x 992 x 50
27
280
24V
SUN-300
1956 x 992 x 50
12
300
24V
SUN-180
1580 x 810 x 50/40
465
180
24V
SUN-180
1580 x 810 x 50/40
103
180
24V
SUN-250
1580 x 1070 x 40
20
250
36V

 

[ocsdor]

Where can I get the chinese imports for .80/watt??? I will jump all over that. I'd much rather not have to mess with encapsulating them myself, but most of what I saw was around $2/watt.

And, when your job gets outsourced for cheaper overseas labor, who will you be crying to?

 

[shibumiseeker]

And I just got another email from sunelec.com

Name brand (Sharp) panels available in single quantity at $.68/watt.

If you want to buy a shipping container of Sharp that has been labelled "Sun" you can get it for $.44/watt. Made in Tennessee!

They have come down drastically in price and the quality has stayed the same or improved.

 

[shibumiseeker]

And, when your job gets outsourced for cheaper overseas labor, who will you be crying to?

I tell you watt (pun intended), if I can buy a megawatt's worth of PV and make the initial investment back (without government subsidy) and make a profit over the life of the panels selling power to the utility (at under $1.20/watt installed they do have a positive ROI in Indiana), that's a net gain for the US!

 

[shibumiseeker]

And my periodic update from sunelec.com. They have used Kyocera (good quality) 120 watt panels (tested to 110 watts and a 20 year warranty) for $.52/watt for single panel prices to $.42/watt for a pallet.

I am seriously considering buying a pallet if anyone is interested in going in on some. The biggest cost in buying a single panel is shipping so it makes sense o buy as many as possible.

 

[maverick18]

And my periodic update from sunelec.com. They have used Kyocera (good quality) 120 watt panels (tested to 110 watts and a 20 year warranty) for $.52/watt for single panel prices to $.42/watt for a pallet.

I am seriously considering buying a pallet if anyone is interested in going in on some. The biggest cost in buying a single panel is shipping so it makes sense o buy as many as possible.

Would these mix well with Kyocera 135Watt 12v panels for an off grid system? I would be interested in up to 4 of them if so.

Edit: actually depending on final cost after shipping, would want AT LEAST 4. Possibly up to 8.

 

[shibumiseeker]

Would these mix well with Kyocera 135Watt 12v panels for an off grid system? I would be interested in up to 4 of them if so.

Edit: actually depending on final cost after shipping, would want AT LEAST 4. Possibly up to 8.

These are 36 cell panels and would mix seamlessly with any other 36 cell panels of any manufacture.

Monday I'll call and see about pallet pricing and shipping and report back (and start a new thread if it looks possible).

 

[maverick18]

These are 36 cell panels and would mix seamlessly with any other 36 cell panels of any manufacture.

Monday I'll call and see about pallet pricing and shipping and report back (and start a new thread if it looks possible).

Thanks shibumiseeker. At that price it would be cheaper to greatly increase the amount of panels than to add a small wind turbine to diversify power generation.